At the start of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, European leaders painted the battle in stark moral terms, imposing harsh sanctions against Russia and talking about President Volodymyr Zelensky as a hero.

But as the war drags on, different conversations have taken place behind the scenes to consider what Ukraine might need to give up to achieve peace.

Guest: Matina Stevis-Gridneff, the Brussels bureau chief for The New York Times.

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Background reading:

Countries in the Group of 7 face dueling pressures: Penalizing Russia while easing the economic pain at home.
Chancellor Olaf Scholz of Germany and President Emmanuel Macron of France are expected to visit Ukraine on Thursday — but they may face a tense reception.

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