In this insightful discussion with luxury bespoke tailor Dimitri Toukhcher, we explore his journey building a global fashion brand worth millions. Dimitri shares tactics that helped him close huge sales, emphasizing boldness, rapport building, and reading people.

He contends most success stems from learned skills - not innate traits. We cover why direct sales develops critical expertise like handling rejection, turning strangers into friends, and “selling yourself.” Dimitri argues universities increasingly fail at teaching these social competencies crucial for influence and leadership.

Overall an eye-opening look at timeless methods for getting ahead in business and life. Mastering human relationships unlocks doors nothing else can.

Dimitri Toukhcher: [00:00:00] See people over plan and under execute. I was all about execution. The first day I went out, I had no fabrics. I had, I bought a magazine with some suit pictures, literally at a home hardware order book.

I went into Blake's law firm in Alberta. I was cold calling. I had five meetings. I ended up with six sales. Cause on my way out after five sales, I met someone in the elevator that we ended up going to a boardroom and they bought some stuff as well. So I put up about 40, 000 worth of orders my first week.

Again, I had no product, no sample, just a magazine.

Would you like to know more?

Malcolm Collins: Hello, this is Malcolm Collins here with Dimitri. I actually met you when we were recording for Just Pearly Things. Oh no, before that, at the ARC conference he runs LGMG, which is the company that makes things like Jordan Peterson suits, if you're familiar with those sort of wacky suits, but they also make, you know, more conservative outfits as well.

So, so worth checking out and what I wanted to do with this episode, because we've had some episodes on how to like make money or start companies which are our listeners seem to really like. And [00:01:00] you went from my understanding being an encyclopedia salesman to building this, this quite large company.

I'd love it if you could walk through the process of that.

Dimitri Toukhcher: So every company is a little bit different, right? Like when people say like, what does the CEO do? How did you start your company? There's not one sort of formula that everybody follows, you know, in our case, we're a direct sales company. So, you know, when I was in university and our company is LGFG, it's like, it just stands for look good, feel good, lgfg.

com. So when I was in university, um, I just, I needed a way to make some money. And I guess, you know, not everybody. Not everybody responds the same to authority, like, in my case, coming from the USSR, like, authority wasn't sexy to me, and so going into a very large company, like, I did a co op term for the government of Canada, working in public works and government services, and I despised working in a government office, it was just so slow, and everybody was so mediocre, and slovenly, and, and just, you know, lazy.

Malcolm Collins: I want to hear more about working in the government to start, because I, [00:02:00] I started my career working at, like, a, a cubicle office? No, it was a start up, but it was... Dramatically more efficient than when I worked in like, even academia. Like academia was slow. I've heard like government, government work is even worse.

Can you talk about like office structure?

Dimitri Toukhcher: What happened? Well, lemme, lemme tell you a couple examples. Like, I'll tell you my personal experiences. They may be anecdotal, but these are my experiences. So like, I was a sequel coder, so I was supposed to design like an online intranet portal where government workers from our department could log in and view.

So this, this government department built like roads and bridges and things like that. And we had to compare like the budget that was set for us for the year versus the budget that we actually spent and we Needed to be able to query it very quickly, right? And so about two months in I finished all the sequel stuff and and We launched the thing and we started searching like month by month and we could see that we were for the year Dramatically under budget, which was great.

wHich was great. And then my my my supervisor who was like the department head She was like Hey I see that we're like 200, 000 under budget for [00:03:00] the year. I was like, this is great. She's like, my God, we're going to have to get the best pizza party ever. And I thought she was joking and she wasn't. We had like a month of just pizza parties.

She literally said, we need to spend 200, 000 so that we get the same budget next year, otherwise they'll lower our budget. Yeah, I was like, this is taxpayer money. Like I'm not at this point. I'm like 22, but I understand you're just throwing taxpayer money away. This is just wasteful. She's like, yeah, but like, they'll give us a lower budget.

I'm like, can you imagine if you're a CEO of a company and it's your money and your company's money? And your employee spends 200, 000 on pizza in a month. It

Malcolm Collins: was wild. As some larger companies begin to develop policies like this, like if they get so large and bureaucratic and regulated, like you're talking like the airline industry or something and, and this is just wildly inefficient.

It's one of the things that my wife, she's running, she'll be running for office in this next cycle. She wants to replace a large portion of local government with AI to like use AI crawlers to detect this type of behavior. In budget systems, but like, I, I completely [00:04:00] agree with what you're talking about.

That's horrifying, but it's a good place to start because we're starting with like the least efficient corporate structures. Now, what did you do after that? Yeah.

Dimitri Toukhcher: So, so, so kind of concurrently in my summertime, I got recruited to sell encyclopedias door to door, which was a completely opposite experience.

So now instead of, you know, being in an office with many, many people, lots of bureaucracy, things move slowly and nothing really seems to happen ever. I'm outside by myself knocking on doors and I either, you know, get chased off a porch or if I do my, you know, if I execute at a high level, I'll get a check right there then on the spot because it's like, you know, you knock, you show, you sell, you take a check, you're done, right?

Yeah. And so this is like the complete opposite. And obviously the results come very, very quickly in direct sales because, you know, right away, if you're, if you're moving forward or you're not. And so that experience, I did that for, I ended up doing that for six years. I actually bought my first home in Vancouver when I was a third year student at UBC, um, because I'd done so well in door to door sales.

Right. So I learned, I learned a skill that was very, very useful, which is the skill to be able to sell a product to a person. [00:05:00] And, by the way, leave that person quite happy at that transaction, because, you know, they have a long cancellation policy in Canada, and I didn't seem to have a lot of cancellations, so people like the transaction.

I'm like, this is good. And so when I finished my university degrees, I was like, okay, I have

Malcolm Collins: one before we go further. I want to, I want to stick on this point for a bit. Encyclopedias. I feel like our younger listeners may not know what those are.

Dimitri Toukhcher: So, I mean, this was a, this was a condensed encyclopedia, but there are books that basically like give you information.

Our case, what we were selling were more like study guides for school, like to help with. You know, math, homework, writing essays, just a reference guide for people to use a

Malcolm Collins: couple times. Yeah, like Wikipedia

Dimitri Toukhcher: in a book. Kind of like that, kind of like that, exactly. So that was kind of the idea. And even at the time Wikipedia existed, I'm not that old, and the internet existed, right?

Yeah. But, but, but I was able to make the sale. It was just, you know, there's other things that people benefit

Malcolm Collins: from. Yeah. So, so something I wanted to touch on here because I thought this was very interesting. It came to a statistics I heard recently is I've always said so one, just in terms of direct sales for our listeners we have [00:06:00] another episode on how to get rich where we do discuss direct sales as a mechanism because it is a fairly reliable mechanism.

Just make sure you don't confuse direct sales with MLMs. But they're, they're very distinct. And I would also say that a really interesting thing is you might have an arbitrage opportunity if you're out there doing direct sales today. Because when I was younger, I had to learn to sell myself to women.

I had to learn to go up to random women and get them interested in me. And I would do this, you know, at malls, I'd randomly walk up to people over and over and over again. And a lot of guys had this experience. This is how we learned to. Well, I saw a statistic recently that said of Gen Z, only 10 percent of men have ever approached a woman, which means that you're getting a whole generation of people who just have never built up the, I would say the cognitive fortitude that's needed to do stuff like knocking on doors and direct sales.

So you're going to have a huge arbitrage opportunity. People will have not run into a direct salesperson in years.

Dimitri Toukhcher: I literally, listen, I teach this to my company all the time. People say cold calling [00:07:00] doesn't work. That's BS. Cold calling works better now than it's ever worked. And I've been doing this for 20 years.

It works better because when you're good, they've like, literally people have never experienced a good salesperson. They just have this idea of like some cheesy salesman being like this douche, whatever. That's like, no man, great salespeople that bring revenue to the company. They're the highest paid people in the world because it's so hard to get revenue, right?

And by the way, you know that thing you said about like approaching girls at the mall? I mean, I did the same thing and I, and I actually did it with a group of guys that taught it and I signed up for their seminar and I was already like 22 or 23 because I wanted to iterate enough times to learn that skill.

But we have this fear of approaching, you know, where the sphere of approaching comes from in sales and dating, you know, where it comes from, it's, it comes from tribalism, right? So we used to live in. We still live in tribes, and being, you know, castigated by another member of the tribe and the embarrassment it costs could actually cause us to be kept out of the tribe, which means certain deaths.

So we have this fear of social shame, which is no longer applicable in today's society because our society is so large that if a girl rejects you, it's not like [00:08:00] very likely that every single girl in your city is going to know about it, you know what I mean? Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: so yeah. And I think it's only overcome with like a catalyst.

Like, it's not something I think some people say, because this is the way young people are raised today. I just am not the type of person who can do that, right? No, anyone can make

Dimitri Toukhcher: themselves desperation and it's like, you know, one of the things we can get into a different topic is like what porn is doing to men is it's basically eliminating desperation that you need to take a little bit more risk in your life.

And I know that's not, but that's actually true, right? Because like, it's

Malcolm Collins: true. Men aren't desperate enough

Dimitri Toukhcher: anymore. There's like a really high amount of things. I tell my sales team all the time, like there's a lot you can achieve when you're just a little bit desperate. And we have this thing that like, you know, we need to raise the floor for everyone.

I'm like, I disagree with that. I think a little bit of dust, like every, I look, I work with a lot of hyper successful people. Like I'm talking like you go to our website, lgbt. com. I work with global celebrities at the highest level and they all have a really effed up childhood because they had to learn.

To express their talents and maximize for [00:09:00] the thing that would get them out of desperation. Right, and it's a common thread. I've heard this in the Joe Rogan podcast. It's a common thread amongst ultra successful people. A lot of them come from f ed up circumstances. And you know what? Maybe if we raise the floor, then everybody's equal, but maybe we're gonna lose the thing about human ingenuity.

Like that, that level of brilliance that comes from somebody that becomes obsessed with a life and then they pursue it, you know?

Malcolm Collins: Yes. So two threads I really want to pull on here. One and this is part of a, probably a whole other podcast we'll do at some point with my wife, but we are really interested in creating sort of artificial hardship for our kids because I'm really afraid of they don't grow up without any hardship.

They're not going to be successful. And so we're like buying some land in like Northern Canada with a number of other weird families like us and putting cameras to make sure there's not like bears or anything. And then just Having them have to learn to like live there and feed themselves with a group of other kids for a few months, like stuff like that.

Like we, we thought about maybe like leaving them in another country, like I had to do a few times when I was younger, but then I was like, yeah, but if they get murdered or something, then we're going to get blamed for it. And, you know, [00:10:00] but yeah, it's, it's, it's. Tough to, to try to artificially create this.

The other thing I wanted to talk about, which is really interesting is I say this, the, the number one skill I ever learned. So when I was at Stanford business school, getting my MBA, which was really the best business school program in the world. Right. I, at the same time, I organized my classes.

So they were all on two days a week. And then three days a week, I would go to 500 startups where, because I had a company in their accelerator at the time. And so I was learning what Stanford was having to teach us and learning what the accelerator is having to teach us. And the number one thing I learned of utility that I use almost every day in every business venture I've ever done since then is mass cold email.

And I learned that from startup world. And that's like cold calling. So a lot of people, well, They'll hear cold calling and they're like, I get cold called all the time. I get those people who are like, hello, is this, and then they say like the wrong name I work for whatever company. That's not, that's like a the, the, the cold email equivalent of like getting one of those like formatted emails with like gifts in it and stuff.

And you immediately know, like it's a political trolling email, but then there's other cold emails where you [00:11:00] click on it and you're like, not sure. Is this a robo email or not? When you are doing. Good cold calling. You are not dropping out there. I think the best place where people still learn to do this is probably in, in, in missions was the church of Mormon.

Like, like, I, I love that. I mean, you want good salespeople. They make great salespeople because they have to sell. I mean, I, From an outsider's perspective, something that seems pretty preposterous and then go door to door doing it. And there's two ways they can approach this. They can either just go, hello, have you heard of blah, that's not actually going to convert anyone or they start with like, Hey, what are your problems?

What are you dealing with right now? You know, actually engaging the person about their needs, which I doubt you have had a salesperson due to you in a long time as you're just like an average person. But anyway, continue.

Dimitri Toukhcher: Well, cold calling, cold calling is a brilliant, you know, I'll tell you a funny, there's a couple of like things that come to mind right away, but like, for me, I took so much pride in, in really cold calling at a level, whether it was knocking on a door or picking up a phone [00:12:00] doing at a level where I would connect very, very quickly with the other person.

Cause remember all sales is, is person to person. It's not business to business. It's just person to person, right? And I, and I would come up with like very witty retorts and I would, you know, iterate and, and try something funnier or something a little bit more spicy just to kind of like capture somebody's attention a little bit.

Like, as an example, like I, I've got, I mean, this is gonna sound weird out of context, but just as an example, like when I, when I was, you know, starting LGFG and I would pick up the phone, I would cold call law firms to sell suits and a guy would say. Well, look, Dimitri, you know, I appreciate the call, but, you know, I have a, I have a really good tailor already, and, you know, there's all these, and, and one of my best answers that I, you know, I've done a thousand times, I go, well, Malcolm, let me ask you a question.

Does your tailor make you feel powerful, you know, like Saddam Hussein? And the guy would go, no. And I'd go, great, open your calendar. Let's meet. And you know, some guys would get like, really, really, really, really like, quirky or like kind of try to be [00:13:00] a little more foxy with me. It's like, you know, does your tailor make you feel powerful?

Like SDA Hussein, he'd go, yeah. I go, well, Malcolm Saddam Hussein wasn't a very good guy. And, you know, and the guy would like, and again, out of context, that sounds weird, but I would try to iterate for an answer that would give me a little bit of an edge over my competition. Like, and I took a lot of pride in this, right?

Like I really took a lot of pride in this. Like one of the, my favorite ones is. If you call a prospect and he gets angry, he's like, You people call me all the time! And I go, You people? You saying that because I'm black? And then I would

Malcolm Collins: go, Oh my god, I can't And then I would go,

Dimitri Toukhcher: Oh, no, well, I don't know.

I'm like, Malcolm, dude, dude, dude. I'm nothing with you, man. I'm just, I'm just trolling. And the guy's like, Oh, okay. And then he laughs. And then all of a sudden we established this bond because I pushed his boundaries a little bit. You know, it didn't get violent. It was kind of funny. He's relieved. And I, and I just learned to, and I go, look, man, you know, and then I continue my pitch and I would, so I would learn how to control the tension.

And that's something that, you know, was applicable at sales. It was applicable with women and dating as well. You kind of start to understand that. Men who have a lot of money act exactly like women, [00:14:00] by the way, when it comes to consumer habits. That's something I learned from luxury sales is men with a lot of money.

They have all the power and everybody's trying to get their money. Well, guess what? Beautiful women have all the power. Everybody's trying to get a piece of them too. So, so, so you kind of learn it's, it's, it's a very transferable skill. So anyway, so I went, so I was door to door selling and I started selling, you know, encyclopedias, but then I wanted something to go and I was doing really well with that.

I wanted to do something a little bit more. Let's say, well, I wanted to do something more status driven because the, you know, like I could be 25 and making a few hundred grand a year, but I'm still a door to door salesperson. And now I'm kind of in the dating marketplace. I want to do something a little more elevated.

So I discovered that I could probably transfer the direct selling skills to a different product. I chose suits and I started, you know, hitting up law firms and private equity firms and banks. Calling on people like you with Stanford MBAs.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, before we go further with that, because I really want to get to that, I also want to touch on a few of the sales strategies that you mentioned, because I think they're very useful for people to know about, because there aren't a lot of places where people can learn like useful cold email or sales strategies these days.

Something [00:15:00] you mentioned was in both of those, like the race based joke and the A joke around Saddam Hussein, not like a joke, but like it's something you wouldn't normally hear in both of those. You put in language or a comparison that is usually exclusive to non sales environments. People do not cross those lines when doing typical sales environments.

So it categorizes you differently, like, as a like an actual engagement in the person's head. Another thing that you did that's very clever for people to learn from is switching no's to yes's. In which you say, you, you ask them a question, and then you say, oh, because you answered that way, let's book a meeting, right?

Whereas... You know, their answer is pretty incongruous was whether or not they would book a meeting with you, but they said, no, I won't book a meeting. Then you ask them something else. And then really, regardless of whatever they answer to that, you can say, Oh, okay, great. Then let's book a meeting. Which is really powerful in terms [00:16:00] of moving the process forwards and getting your foot in the door. So, when you first started thinking about what company you were going to, like, try to direct sell, can you talk about the brainstorming that went on there, the different types of products you thought about, how you landed on the product you landed on, etc.?

Dimitri Toukhcher: Yeah, so, so, and by the way, just to come back, I'll answer it, but to come back to your point about, you know, like, pushing a boundary that's not normally part of the sales context. That's extremely important. There's a biologic, there's an evolutionary biology reason for it. Like, what, what, what you want to do is like, if we're being very polite with prospects, because just for the sake of politeness, or with women, they understand we're virtue signaling because we want something.

But as a man to man, like if I'm talking to you, and I make a little joke that sort of crosses the line a little bit, and we don't escalate to violence, I know you're cool. And that's actually how men test each other. This is why guys, when we compliment each other, it's like, Oh, you douche. Oh, you fat piece of crap.

You know, the way guys compliment each other is actually insulting each other and not escalating to violence. And so we cross that boundary anyways. But,

Malcolm Collins: Oh, sorry. I got [00:17:00] it. I got to tell a quick story here before you go further with that. After we had talked for a bit, cause we were talking for a bit when we were in London.

My wife was behind us and she goes, why was he like miming, punching you? She goes, what was the context there? But I think that that's the sort of thing that you're talking about there. In terms of like escalating friendship levels within male, male interactions in things that you can't easily do with women, but anyway, continue with

Dimitri Toukhcher: what you were talking about.

And that might have been, that was just emerged naturally. I think we were just getting along pretty well, but. buT, but yeah, so what I was thinking is like, I want it to be in sales for sure, because money was, you know, because I am a salesman, let's put it this way, like money is at the top of my hierarchy of needs for my profession.

Like I don't want to be middle class. We suffer too much as business owners and salespeople in order to make middle income money. So it had to, it had to have like a lucrative thing to it. I wanted a quick sales cycle. That was important to me. So even though I thought I was going to sell software, I realized that like waiting a year and a half for an answer and going with 50 parties, wasn't what I wanted.

So I wanted a quick sales cycle so that I can start earning money. One thing that was really important for me is I didn't want to go to any [00:18:00] more school. Like I did five years at university. I did not want to go get an MBA or, you know, CFA or anything like that. So I needed something I could sell right away that didn't need extra, extra qualifications.

Like I just, I was done with school, man. I'd spend my whole, you know, I was 25. I've been in school my whole life. Like, no thanks. The other thing that was interesting is I had this delusional idea that maybe one day I could grow an international company. So I wanted to sell a product that wasn't regulated.

Like for example insurance is very highly regulated depending on the country, even state or province you live in. Or, you know, or financial investments. Like I couldn't sell investments to somebody in Alberta and Canada and then go to Norway and sell investments because there's different regulating bodies.

And suits just, it was just crazy. Like, I don't know how it came about, but suits just match my criteria. I'm like, Oh. It's a quick sale. I can make it right away. I can sell it internationally. And actually one other thing is I want it to be selling to highly sophisticated people because that was an ethical decision I had made.

And the reason I say that is when I started, when, when I got like better at selling [00:19:00] encyclopedias door to door, I realized very quickly that I can manipulate people that are, let's say a certain below a certain threshold of intelligence. I could manipulate them with emotional selling. I can get them emotionally vested in the product where I felt like taking their money was manipulative.

I didn't want to be like that, but I never felt manipulative when I sold to people that had, you know, PhDs and that ran banks, like those people, I never felt because they're smarter than me. So I wanted to sell to people smarter than me. And suits, you know, it's a, it's like, I'm wearing like a 12, 000 cashmere full cashmere suit right now.

Like people that buy these kinds of products, sense or how do you have made it in life? And so it gave me access to these people that I didn't feel manipulative over. And also they were people that were CEOs and that ran banks and ran. You know, private equity firms, they had degrees from top universities.

That was my ticket into that table. Right. Can you

Malcolm Collins: talk about sourcing your original? Because our listeners are going to be interested in thinking about starting their own companies and everything like that. First I love everything that you've talked about so far. So he was thinking about the [00:20:00] audience that he was selling to, like, he's like, I want to sell to this demographic.

What sort of things does this demographic buy that I could realistically sell to them? Then he was also thinking about. Shipping, storage, everything like that. Like, that is really important if you have a company idea. Suits do not, like, they're not like a food stuff or something like that, right? So, one, easy to ship between borders, but two, also easy to store, although you probably wouldn't because most of them are going to be made more bespoke.

But both of those are, are, are very important things to know. I was wondering how you thought sourced your original distributor.

Dimitri Toukhcher: I didn't because I did it correctly. See people over plan and under execute. I was all about execution. The first day I went out, I had no fabrics. I had, I bought a magazine with some suit pictures, literally at a home hardware order book.

I went into Blake's law firm in Alberta. I was cold calling. I had five meetings. I ended up with six sales. Cause on my way out after five sales, I met someone in the elevator that we ended up going to a boardroom and they bought some stuff as well. So [00:21:00] I put up about 40, 000 worth of orders my first week.

Again, I had no product, no sample, just a magazine. Like, what kind of city thing? And look, I'll make you blue. Like literally like that because I could sell because I have the other thing is like, I don't care if somebody was sitting in their office and designing beautiful catalogs, good for them. But I knew how to sell, right?

Malcolm Collins: A really important story that's similar to this. A lot of people might not know this, but the original big sale that made Microsoft the company it is. This is when he was selling the operating system to IBM or something, right? He was selling the operating system to, I want to say, IBM. And he made the sale, and he had not Even begun to work on making this product.

She's like, yeah, we have this great product. It fits everything you need. He goes back to the office. He's like, s**t, I just sold a product. We need to make it now. And this falls into something that I think is really important for people when they're thinking about starting a company is the concept of an MVP or a minimal viable product.

So this is what is the. Simplest iteration of your company that you can create to know whether or not your [00:22:00] company is viable. And for you, that was a magazine that somebody else had printed with pictures that you were selling suits out of because you knew if you can sell these suits for X price, then you can go get them made and everything like that.

And that's the easier part. The hardest part of every company is always the sales. This is why a salesperson is usually the highest paid person at a company. At our company, the highest paid people, like most, most of our top sales team has paid more than my wife or I. And it is because you don't have anything if you don't have good, and this is true with marketing that actually works, right?

So if you can find a way to get your company, like suppose you were creating a different iteration of this company and you're like, I want to sell suits. Online, but what you could do is ads a Facebook page, not like a Facebook page, but like Facebook ads, a landing page that you created in WordPress and see if you can sell the product before you figure out how to source the product.

And you can buy ads and see what it costs to get each sale and then expand from there if you're able to do it [00:23:00] viably. But just a way to think about this from what he's saying. But yeah, continue.

Dimitri Toukhcher: Well, that's the thing that most people avoid is the avoid selling the thing because people have delusional ideas of starting a company.

Thing that they get to administrate and tell people what to do. And that's not what you do at all. If you want to start a company, you got to do the stuff that actually brings the money period, because then there's no company without money. You want to hire somebody, get money. And you know, and some people are like, I'll go raise money.

It's like, well, who's stupid enough to give you money if you're not generating revenue, right? So, and ironically, we have our own magazine. So this is one of our magazines, Alice Cooper's on it. You know, we've got all sorts of cool stuff because now, you know, because now we're, we're a fairly large enterprise.

But yeah, so I had I kind of look if I get people's credit cards And I don't even know how to process credit cards at the time Then I was like, okay, I got all these people's credit cards. I have 40 000 hours of credit cards how do I like make so, you know? I so what happened was I called up my bank I'm, like I need a credit card processor because i'm starting a company and the banker's like, okay How much revenue do you think you'll do your first year selling these suits?

I'm like And I lowballed them so hard. I was like, I don't know 200, 000. We ended up doing 980, [00:24:00] 000 our first year and I was like, I don't know 200, 000 I remember the banker lady laughed. She's like, okay, maybe you need some experience running a company first So I ended up just using paypal, but it was super funny because like, you know, she didn't believe I understand why she didn't believe The company would even i'm like I got 40 000 of orders my first day and she just thought I was lying But anyways, so I did that and then we ended up delivering the product the first iteration I flew to asia the first time it was a terrible product It took me years to learn that too, because keep in mind, like, this is a really important thing about like building a business.

Like in our industry, we are the highest end suit manufacturer on the planet bar none hands down. Like we're competing with companies. There's maybe five companies in the world today that are able to achieve anywhere near the level that we're able to achieve because we ended up buying our own manufacturer in the United Kingdom.

Like we're fully transparent on our website. You can see your suits being made live. Like we have the best machinery and everything, but at the time it was like, I just need a product and. When you're building, you know, when you're in the commodity space, like for example, suits, you're competing on price at first.

And if you want to break out the price competition, you have to build a brand and credibility in the market. And [00:25:00] that's, at that point you need a product because, you know, if somebody buys a 5, 000 suit from you. A lot of times it's not the only 5, 000 suit they're going to try. Like the guy driving the Porsche, he's tried the BMW.

He's tried the Lexus. He might've tried the Range Rover. At that point, they're choosing between where they're going to put all their money for the rest of their lives. And you have to have a product that at least minimally meets the standards of the market and hopefully far exceeds that. Right. But you're not thinking that way when you start because nobody without a brand, without market credibility, nobody's going to believe you that you tell them the product is great.

Like that's it takes years and years and years of market trust to actually build a product that people believe is great. So, you know, by the time we got to, for example, Jordan Peterson, it wasn't like we'd never made a suit before. By the time we got Jordan Peterson, we had over 15, 000 long term clients buying from us for over a decade.

Including like his brother who was a client of ours already up in Regina. So, so I just, I don't want people to jump steps here and think like, Oh, I can start something, say it's great. People buy it. No, they won't. It's a much longer road to build credibility.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well, and, and [00:26:00] also product matters a lot here.

So something that's really great about suit sales is just logically, if you're selling to somebody. You can be like, look, they're like, why would I buy from you versus a store? And then you're like, think about the store. Think about the overhead of that brand. Think about how much of the money you're actually paying in.

There is going to branding storefront. You know, if you're buying a suit from like a Brooks brothers or something like a store that has places in Manhattan, you're paying for that, right? And so you can say, that's where we get differential quality that they're not going to have. Now something you mentioned that is really important to think about when you're starting a company, and this is the only thing.

In the suit industry where I'd say it's a less than ideal company is recurring revenue is king. Any product a person has to buy over and over and over again is a really useful product. But with suits you know, I, I'm sure you get recurring clients, but that's different from recurring revenue,

Dimitri Toukhcher: right?

80, 80 percent of our revenue is recurring revenue. Oh,

Malcolm Collins: really? Yes. That's incredible.

Dimitri Toukhcher: Yeah. 80 percent of our revenue is recurring revenue. And this is actually something that I [00:27:00] teach my company very much. So. There are two phases of wealth. Okay. This is actually something I was going to podcast myself for my studio here.

There's two phases of wealth. There is, I'm hustling all the time, nonstop working wealth, and there's, I'm chilling back and enjoying the money rolling in wealth. Okay. And people, people think that this is an argument of a business model. Like with some business models, you get, you have to hustle with some, it's not a business model argument.

It's a Rolodex argument. Like I have clients that are in their thirties that are hustling their ass off, making money, buying suits. But our best clients are in their 50s and they don't work very hard. The difference is when you have a giant rolodex of successful people who trust you that you've built over the years The money rolls in way easier.

I have a friend this story. I was in dubai last week with my friend from london He's a lawyer at a very prestigious law firm And he's like, Dimitri, you know, something crazy is when Twitter goes public, every lawyer is calling them like, Hey, can I take you public? Because every lawyer wants to make 50 million.

He goes, but the guy that gets the deal is the guy that's been working with Twitter for 12 years when they first [00:28:00] started 20 years when they first started, he's got the relationship built. So the guy that gets the deal is the guy with the Rolodex with the CEO of Twitter and his in his Rolodex, right? In our business, so this is very interesting and you might be, you might find this interesting, maybe not, but men are generally pretty loyal to things that work.

Seriously, like, even, even, even, even marriages, like, it's what, 20 percent of men are initiating divorces, like 80 percent of women, men are loyal to things that work. Like, when I tell my wife I want to go for sushi, I don't want to go for sushi, I want to go to that restaurant we always go to. You know this is true, right?

Yeah. It's the same with clothing, like once a guy finds a pair of shoes he likes, like Nike, whatever, he'll buy that thing 20 times. So for us, the reason we get recurring revenue is because our clients like us and trust us because they know that it works. They know they get the results they pay for with no surprises.

And it's not just suits. Obviously, you know, you introduce complimentary products like shirts, like pants, whatever. And guys just keep coming back over, over 80 percent of our revenue this year is recurring revenue.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, well, and so a few things when people are thinking about this is like a [00:29:00] company idea.

So, recurring revenue, if you can get that, that's really king. Especially like tight recurring revenue. So, tight recurring revenue would be like a SaaS product or something that they're paying monthly for. Now that, that's harder to do if you're doing something on your own. What's really interesting about Suits is it's bespoke enough that it makes sense that you could sort of scale a company on it without a big industrial Capacity, but if you were doing something that's like more recurring, like razor heads or something like that, you know, that's going to be very hard to compete with the largest players in the space because there you're really competing on like machining, to be honest.

Which, which can be difficult. Now you can still do it if you can set up the right pathways and everything like that. Another thing is,

Dimitri Toukhcher: no, but that's true for suits as well. Like in order to manufacture the level that we do it at, like we literally have to buy out our manufacturer. I would say to young people is like, don't worry so much about the product.

Worry about selling it. Exactly. Look, we're the, we're at the level. Now you can license anything you can. If you're talking about razor heads, great. You can probably license something that's 98 percent as good as. [00:30:00] The best in the market and you'll be just fine with it. It's all about selling it. It's about getting revenue

Malcolm Collins: Yeah well And another thing is is and you mentioned this before but really think about this when you are starting a company is Geographically, how far can I sell this?

Like right now i'm working on helping a guy get a landscaping company off the ground It's a good industry, but you know, it is geographically limited while suits are not geographically limited but they are really based on a person's sales skills So another thing i'd recommend with sales skills is if you're like, I don't know how good my sales skills are Starting for a direct sales company like the one that he does because he has a motivation to teach you how to sell, right?

And so you might find, oh, it's easy to make money selling for them or, you know, eventually start your own thing, but it might just be easier if you're in a good niche. As I've said, as CEOs, the top salespeople at our company out earn us as CEOs. This is true at most companies. And a lot of people don't realize that, which is why, why, why do we pay them more than we make as CEOs?

So they don't go and start their own [00:31:00] f*****g

Dimitri Toukhcher: companies. Man, a hundred percent. I had years, several years in the last few years where top sales people made more than me and that's amazing. I'm so happy for them. And what you said is true as well. Like, so obviously, you know, there's a, there's a kind of a tired anecdote where the CFO, the chief financial officer says, gee.

What if we train our salespeople and they leave? And the chief executive officer says, what if we don't train our people and they stay? So I tell my guys this, you work for me for two years. I will teach you everything I know about how to direct sell and how to become very, very good. Not only will you make a bunch of money after two years, you'll have a Rolodex of several hundred CEOs that are your clients.

And so worst case scenario, if I screw up as a leader, you have 200 CEOs that already spend money with you. That will be dying to hire you. And you'll have the skills to start your own thing. And then the pressure is on me to make it really, really good for you to stay for a number of reasons. Right. And I like that.

I like the competition because that's what grows me as a CEO to continue to provide an environment for my people. That's the most profitable, the most growth orientated. And the most abundant for them in order to thrive because I don't [00:32:00] grow if I don't do my best. That's the beauty of free market capitalism.

Malcolm Collins: So here's the question I have for you because this is always an interesting question to ask yourself when you're starting a company like this or starting a Salesforce, which is like a whole other thing. Is, do you give your, your sellers lead lists? Or do they generate their own lead list? And if they generate their own lead list, how do they do that?

Because as a company, this is one way that like we prevent or good companies often will prevent their salespeople from leaving because they find the lead list for the salesperson and, and just being able to sell without easy, large lead list generation can be a really difficult thing to do. Yeah. So

Dimitri Toukhcher: it's a combination.

So number one, yes, we definitely have. We definitely farm leads and we know how to do that at a very high level. But also I want my salespeople to learn how to do it for themselves. Like I said, I'm not afraid of people, let's say leaving and competing against me because that just says that I've done something terribly wrong in the leadership, right?

Like ultimately our salespeople also need to know how to generate leads. One of the things that we do and we teach how to do is we call it [00:33:00] floating, which is literally just stopping men on the streets and asking them about their suit and we do it every day. Like I will just stop guys i'll go out for lunch and start i'll be at starbucks I see a guy and I said, hey, bro.

That's a great suit. He's like, oh, thank you And i'm like, let me grab your card. I'm a tailor. I'll call you introduce myself He's like, okay. I got one of my biggest clients like that my very first week doing this ever you know, i'll go into a building and i'll just ride the elevator on i'll walk into offices I'm like, hey, I see you guys have an office here.

I never heard like what do you guys do? It's like oh, we're a mortgage agency. Oh cool. Who's the ceo? It's this guy. My second day I think it was ever selling suits was the craziest story I had got an appointment at a law firm. I went in and I sold the guy. And then I walked out of the law office. There was another door on the floor.

It was in bank. I think it was Vancouver or Calgary. I walked into the office and I go, what are you guys doing? It's like, Oh, we do like subprime lending. I'm like, great. And who's the CEO. And then it just so happened to seal it. What had heard me walk in, he walks out as a three man firm. He's like, what are you doing?

I'm like, I'm selling suits. He's like, oh, come talk to me. He loved the fact that I just barged into his office to introduce myself. On the spot, he placed a [00:34:00] 26, 000 order, gave me his black Amex. It was like one of those baller cards, you know, on the spot, 26 grand. He just liked my chutzpah. He liked my, my, my sort of, you know, pizzazz of walking into the office, being brave.

He's like, man, you remind me of myself, you know, blah, blah, blah. So we teach our guys how to walk in girls, how to walk into offices, make good introductions. Like, really creating business from nothing is a core skill we teach our salespeople. But also keep in mind in our business, it's like this. You can sell suits anywhere, but for 500, but if you want to sell a suit for two, three, four, five, 10, 20 grand, which we sell, you need a brand behind that, a really strong brand.

And so one of the things we offer our salespeople, like yesterday, one of our guys in Hong Kong sold like a eight or 9, 000 suit, one suit to one guy, 8, 000. You can't do that with a random label on your suit for that. You need credibility in the market. And that's what our salespeople get is the credibility of what is today.

One of the world's most successful suit brands that has seen on, you know, in Hollywood movies on celebrities around the world, like our client base [00:35:00] at our income level, they know what LG is and they know who we are.

Malcolm Collins: So I want to, I want to double touch on one thing that you were saying, which I've often seen in, in my life is when you do these more aggressive sales strategies that are aggressive, but also understand how to not overstep people's boundaries, which is really important.

High level people typically recognize that and they respect that because that is the primary way that high level people got to where they are. There was an episode that we have been unable to air. Which is on how to get laid. 'cause the, the AI that I use to like scan our episodes said You cannot post this.

Your channel will get like banned. But I would say that almost all of the core advice you're going to get from that, you could also get from learning how to sell all of these techniques that he's talking about, like it how to stop someone on the street to build them as a potential lead. How to get into a specific environment where then you can perform sales.

All of these are cross transferable skills with getting laid. If you get really good at getting laid through like honest means, not like [00:36:00] cheesy, you know, overly optimized pickup artistry stuff but like actual just honest sales because that's what you are. You're selling yourself to people. You're learning how to generate leads and then sell yourself to people.

That skill will cross transfer to sales and vice versa, which means that if you want to get really good at getting laid, you can do that by moving into these types of sales positions.

Dimitri Toukhcher: But to be transparent, that might be why I ended up in sales to begin with. I was just probably very introverted. I like books, but I wasn't good at like communication.

I think somebody Showed me a picture like this was our company president's club trip. And I saw girls in bikinis. I'm like, wow, there's a trip with girls in bikinis and I can get on it. If I sell a lot, you know, that's probably, you know, that's probably the primal reason I was like, this is great.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Another thing to note here is that every single stage, like the hardest parts of doing a business are going to be sales processes that require the same skillset. You want to raise venture capital funding for your company. That is the exact skillset that you need to sell something like a suit. And if you are [00:37:00] shying away from that part of the starting a company, you are not going to be able to do the VC raise.

You might be able to do a debt raise because bankers are a bit more bureaucratic and there's other ways to do that. But you know, it's, it's difficult. The other thing to note is. Learning sales skills. The problem with learning sales skills is you can really only do this at companies that were founded by a salesperson.

And that is because good salespeople always have something better to do with their time than teaching new salespeople. This is one of the hardest things to do as a company is get your your good salespeople to train new salespeople. They just won't do it. Also it directly cuts into their revenue.

Usually it cuts into their time. It's a very difficult thing to do. And that's another

Dimitri Toukhcher: that's another podcast right there. How to do that is really really intricate. But sorry that you're you that's such a bullseye. I'm shocked. You know that but it's 100 percent correct.

Malcolm Collins: Well, what we ended up doing and you can tell me if this is a bad idea is we basically give them a portion of any increased revenue that their training creates.

So if they're in charge of training someone and then [00:38:00] that person increases the revenue that they're bringing in for something like, Okay. Three or four years. The person who handled that would get a portion of that revenue.

Dimitri Toukhcher: Yeah, that's one of the tactics. We also,

Malcolm Collins: that was one tactic. The next tactic that we use is family based systems and we've done enormously well with this.

This is just like as a side strategy, but it's something that, that is probably useful for people to know. So what we do is we mostly hire from Latin America. That's our like primary audience, which is culturally a bit different from America in terms of the way things work. One of the things that we switched to, and for us, it was one of the biggest boons our company ever did.

It's we allowed people to hire family members to work for them. And as soon as we did that the level of sales transference, like knowledge of sales skills exploded because these were often the people that these people were earning money to send to anyway, right now that they're just hiring these people, why not train them?

You were going to give them a portion of your money anyway, right?

Dimitri Toukhcher: That's a brilliant idea. I'm, I'm, I'm, I just wrote

Malcolm Collins: that down. Yeah, [00:39:00] it's great. And if you expand to Latin America with sales cycles, I really encourage family based systems. And it's one of these things where like working from home, all of a sudden, everything like efficiency, like increases dramatically and everything like that.

When you let people work the way they really want to, you will often find efficiency gains from A players and efficiency decreases from C and D players. 100 percent

Dimitri Toukhcher: correct. And it's really funny. You say that this is so core to what I teach and what I do on a day to day basis as CEO of our company is actually designing and implementing and being very, very loyal to internal policies that specifically promote A players and force C players to leave our company.

I'm very open about it. I'm like, I literally say like my mission, the CEO is to eliminate equality in my company. That's my mission. Like eliminate equality because we're a sales company. So it's like, we have two kinds of people in a sales company. Those that make more money than God. And those who are barely keeping up and trying to keep their head above water.

And I'm like, if you're [00:40:00] unable to keep your head above water, I want you to leave. Yeah. Like I'm not going to help you. I want you to leave. I don't want you dragging down our sales person's average income because top producers, when they come in, they say, what's. What's the average salesperson earning in your company?

I say in our company, new grads are over six figures within 18 months on average, 18 months as they cross the six figure line and then they go, what are the top guys making? And I can point them, I say, well, you'll make over a million if you're a top guy in our organization, right? That's really interesting you say that because you're absolutely right.

I just had recruited a couple of guys from another sales company that are like top, top performers. And they literally were on a call together and they asked me, they're like, what would you do in this situation? They gave me a scenario where like a low producer and a high producer are competing for turf.

I'm like, why are you asking me? I'll just fire the low producer. I'm not even going to deal with them. And they're like, thank you. Because in their last company, there was so much bureaucracy where they, as the top two salespeople in the company had to fight with low producers for terms of keeping equal.

I'm like, no, I I'm on a mission. I don't want equality. I want maximization. I want ultimate [00:41:00] maximization at the highest level.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, well, and something I know with a company like his or with a lot of companies like this to be this type of a salesperson is like a really tough skill to develop to get to the level where you're getting in the door.

And so you might say, how do I develop this skill? Like, how do I develop like prodromal sales skills? Like, like before entering a sales market, like before getting people to have sex with me or something like that, right? Like, how do I do that? The real key is learn how to make friends at scale. And people might be like, what the f**k do you mean?

Learn how to make friends at scale without trying to sell to someone without trying to get them to sleep with you. Can you stop people at a mall or on a street? and make friends with them, like get their phone number and get follow up. If you develop this skill, this is stage one to all of these other skills.

But it's a very, you know, it's a very difficult stage one for a lot of people because they're not used to actually bringing something. And the other thing to note is you, you've got to do this without looking like you're going through a manic episode. [00:42:00] Which is what some people do, like it's more than just being able to go up and talk to someone and engage them.

You need to be able to go up and talk to someone while also being, you know, self demeaning and jocular enough that you, you don't look like somebody who's having a mental breakdown. That you look like this is a natural engagement. And, and there's all sorts of like, you will develop lines, like as you begin to do this, like maybe like, Look, I'm new in town.

I had no idea it was going to be this hard to meet people locally, but I'm trying this thing where I go out and I say hi to people like, are you up for chatting for a bit? Right. And most people might say no, some people would say yes, but little lines like that can help you break the ice. If you're attempting this strategy.

Dimitri Toukhcher: It's a great lesson. You just gained so much credibility with me because that's, first of all, that's exactly how I started is I made a commitment for myself that if I'm out, like. Waiting in line for something, going into a mall, a mall, an elevator. My goal is I'm going to talk to every stranger, like period.

And, and then start just saying a compliment, like, Hey man [00:43:00] those are awesome shoes or like saying to a girl, Hey, great hair, you know, just whatever it could be coming off as bad and creepy at the beginning, because I'm just trying to build my confidence and being able to start interactions. Like that's actually something I did very consciously to the point where it's now, for me, at least it's a superpower.

Like, and if you saw me at arc, you know. I was with a group of like politicians. They're pretty high level guys that people know and a couple of famous actor types that were there and they're like, oh, we can't get into the, you know, the, the big thing that Peterson's doing tonight. 12, 000 people at the O2.

I'm like, I'll get us in, like, how are you going to do it? I'm like, let's just show up and I'm going to talk to, and I showed up and I'm talking to all the people I met. We ended up not only getting front row tickets, we actually backstage access afterwards to hang out with all the reporters. Speakers that were on stage and a lot of it was like I know that I've developed a superpower Like I will talk to the waiter at the restaurant.

I will talk to the to the maitre d of the restaurant I will make a connection. I'll start connecting the dots I'll introduce them to people and eventually I remember one of the guys that came to our key was like dude That was crazy. He's like you literally like The first night I ended [00:44:00] up having dinner with one of the speakers.

The next night I had dinner with a different speaker. Like, how do you do this? I'm like, I just make sure that I talk to everybody. Like I met you at the conference cause you, you were walking around. Hey, let's talk for a second. You know, and, and I got a Rolodex from that. And like I said you know, the podcast with it, you and I did one before.

It's like the most valuable thing you have in life when you get older is the Rolodex since who can you call that is the most valuable thing you can have.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So, a lot of people, they'll hear this and they'll be like, yeah, but I'm not an extrovert. I can't do this. Let me tell you a little secret. Most of the people who are best at doing this are extreme introverts. The reason they get good at doing this is because they do not naturally make friends.

And so they have to force themselves to learn how to make friends in the most clinical sociopathic manner possible, where they're like, okay. This is step one in engaging people. I can't leave this party unless I've talked to at least five people because they would just leave the party without talking to anyone because that's what they want to do, you know, and I think that this is a really [00:45:00] important thing.

It's all of these reasons that a person might be telling themselves. I can't begin to try this. They're, they're lies. They're mostly lies. They're actually the reasons why, I don't know, do you consider yourself an introvert or an extrovert?

Dimitri Toukhcher: So, I certainly don't consider myself a natural, and I'll say this, I've said, I've said this to a lot of people, like, I remember, I got into Gene Simmons house last month and ended up measuring some, you know, Backstreet Boys pursuits and people were like, at the party, they were like, dude, you know, everybody, how'd you get in here?

There was an 18 year old kid there, and he's like, I don't know what I'm doing at this party, you know, my boss brought me, but you know everybody, you know, it's amazing. I'm like, dude, I don't know anybody here. He's just like, what? I'm like... Literally, I told them, I'm like, you're 18, right? I'm like, listen to me and listen to me carefully, young man.

Everything you're seeing me do out here is 100 percent intentional. I've practiced this for years. I'm intentionally doing it. And so I would not consider myself an extrovert. I certainly would not consider myself a natural, but i'll beat any natural. Because a natural, you know, it's like if you were good with the girls in high school or university, like by the time that I started iterating and trying to, you know, understand how to gamify [00:46:00] the system.

I'm married for over 10 years. We got four kids. So it's not like, you know, it's not like I had sociopathic outcomes in mind. My outcomes were to maximize my potential to get to marry the woman I want to marry and have kids that you know that I want to have not have to settle, for example, same financial other stuff in my career.

But like it was so intentional that I knew that if you're a natural, I will destroy you and you won't understand what's happening because I'll start to understand. It's like, you know, there's very Gregarious extroverted people go into sales thinking they'll be the best salespeople. After a couple of years, I creamed, I destroyed those people.

And they're like, how do you do it? It was like, I'm like, because you're just operating on your intuition, but I'm operating on iteration and intuition. So I'm basically running like an AI mechanism here. Oh,

Malcolm Collins: absolutely. And I think a key thing that a lot of these people miss is being a good salesperson does not mean like always.

Now, some people, there's different ways you can optimize yourself, does not mean looking like a giga Chad does not mean acting like you're, you're stereotypical, like frat bro, like, like charisma person, [00:47:00] high charisma, Can look like autism when it's performed well. So you want to talk about like great sales recently, Elizabeth Holmes, amazing sales person.

She had no f*****g product. And she sold it to the wealthiest men in the world, raising all this venture capital money. And she did that. If you look at her, she's very. Or stuff like that. And you'll see this, like if you meet a venture capitalist, people will be like, well, venture capitalists, like they're also you know, spectrumy they must have horrible sales skills, everything about being a venture capitalist is sales.

You're either raising money from LPs, which is selling, or you are trying to get into deals, which you really have no business getting into because you, you know, you, you've got to get into only the best deals. That's how you make it. And everybody often knows what the best deals are. Same with private equity, all sales.

So all of these jobs that a lot of people associate with like ASCII personality types. They actually are just optimized for sales within their field.

Dimitri Toukhcher: 100%. That's true for everything. We literally have this call in our company all the time. The best lawyers are the ones that are the best [00:48:00] brain makers.

They're able to bring clients in, right? But the main thing I think you're trying to to purvey, and I wanna, I wanna second that, is that you can learn how to be an amazing salesperson and a great networker. You can learn how to make friends. Look, I remember if I saw this at 18, I wouldn't have believed this because I got into it in my early twenties, but like, you can learn this, you can learn how to be attractive to women.

You can learn how to be attractive to clients. You can learn it. Like it's a skill it's you're, you can be born at a certain level, but you can learn it. Yeah, and

Malcolm Collins: what's fucked up is it's all the same skill. It's like, the most important skill, and they do not teach it to you anywhere.

Dimitri Toukhcher: Yeah, but you know why they don't teach it?

This is actually really interesting, it's because schools are naturally So, think about who a teacher is, right? So, you know there's differences in testosterone that are predicted by the profession that So testosterone can predict the profession you go into. Entrepreneurs have the highest levels of testosterone, the lowest are teachers.

And it makes sense why, because, you know, like testosterone is associated, connected to risk seeking. Who's a lower risk seeker than somebody [00:49:00] that grew up in a school, and then professionally went back to school, and then teaching at the same school? So, teachers can't teach you this stuff, because they don't have the risk seeking appetite, they're security seekers, they're low T people, it just is what it is.

And they're not going to teach you how to optimize for risk. They're going to teach you how to minimize risk, but we want to optimize, not minimize. Well,

Malcolm Collins: it's, it's true. I another thing I say, there's a filter happening here. If you know a lot about starting companies, but like you haven't started a company, then you're a great candidate for a teacher.

If you know a lot about starting companies and you've started a company, well, then you're sort of, not going to be a teacher. Right. Right. And this is one of the things that top business schools, which is why the top business schools are typically so far above the next year business schools, is they typically will only employ people who have actually run large companies before or made it into those positions, which means that they need to be compensated really well because they're used to these large anyway, or compensated in who they're interacting with, like mental stimulation.

I don't want to go too far. Here. This has been an amazing show. This might [00:50:00] be like the most useful show in how to get rich, even more than the, how to get rich show. So I really enjoyed this and I think that this will make a difference for a lot of people. Could you talk a bit about your company and people were interested in, in reaching out about that?

Dimitri Toukhcher: Yeah. LG of G it just stands for low. Good. Feel good. LG of g. com is our website. Log the field at LG of g. com. We're selling retailing high end bespoke suits on a direct sales model across 26 countries around the world, all the way from Canada out to China. I mean, we're literally all over the world. And we're, when we're hiring, we're primarily targeting you know, younger recruits that are starting their career in sales that want to learn some of the skills we talk about.

You know, how to sell, how to close deals, how to make money. That's what we teach here. And we're really good at it and very, very proudly. So working with a top level celebrities, top level clientele, we are quite well established in our industry. Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: well, and that can help you get in the door with sales.

Like, oh, look, this person, you know, they, yeah well, anyway I, and, well, and show tribal affiliation. If you judge correctly tribal affiliation, like, oh, [00:51:00] the Jordan Peterson thing, and someone's a Jordan Peterson fan, you know, you can, you can get through barriers. But anyway, I, I will keep talking forever.

We keep doing this. This has been fantastic. And I had a great time chatting with you.

Dimitri Toukhcher: Likewise. Cheers.

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