70. Digital Ghosts

Amy Kurzweil’s dad is a famous inventor, futurist and pioneer in the field of AI. In 2015, she discovers his aspiration to make an AI chatbot of her late grandfather, Fred. Fred was a musician who dramatically escaped the Holocaust, but he died before Amy was born. Matthew Syed delves into Amy’s fascinating journey with her father to build the ‘Fredbot’ and have an online conversation with the grandfather she never met.

He also hears from Lynne Nieto, who worked with her late husband to make an interactive AI video of him before he passed away. Today, she struggles to engage with it.

The idea of using AI to simulate conversations with the dead troubles Matthew and raises all sorts of ethical questions. With the help of experts, he discovers how similar concepts were once debated by ancient Chinese philosophers and explores how digital ghosts could affect the grieving process.

With cartoonist and writer Amy Kurzweil; Alexis Elder, Professor of Philosophy at the University of Minnesota Duluth and author of the forthcoming book The Ethics of Digital Ghosts: Confucian, Mohist, and Zhuangist Perspectives on AI and Death; grief therapist and author of The Loss Prescription, Dr Chloe Paidoussis-Mitchell; and Lynne Nieto.

Featuring references to the graphic novel Artificial: A Love Story by Amy Kurzweil, published in 2022 by Catapult Books.

Presenter: Matthew Syed Producer: Vishva Samani Series Editor: Georgia Moodie Sound Design and Mix: Daniel Kempson Theme music by Ioana Selaru A Novel production for BBC Radio 4