S1 E11: An indirect exploration of Jungian Sandplay
Jan 21, 2024
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Therapists with autism discuss demand avoidance, the distinction between PDA and autistic demand avoidance, the accreditation process for Jungian Sandplay, the therapeutic value of play and sand tray therapy, and the curiosity of listening to listener experiences.
Demand avoidance in autism goes beyond simply avoiding tasks and can involve internal confusion and turning against oneself.
Sound play therapy provides a safe and symbolic space for individuals, particularly those with developmental trauma, to explore emotions and experiences non-verbally.
Deep dives
Autistic therapists discussing their experiences and unmasking
In this podcast episode, Leo and Shauna, both autistic therapists, have a conversation about their experiences as autistic adults, particularly in the context of their careers in therapy. They discuss the importance of unmasking and creating an autistic space for themselves and others. The episode aims to challenge the perception that only neurotypical therapists exist and to contribute to the ongoing conversation around neurodiversity. They invite listeners, regardless of their neurotype or profession, to join in and find connection in their discussions.
Exploring demand avoidance and the distinction between autistic demand avoidance and PDA
In this segment of the podcast, Leo and Shauna discuss demand avoidance, a concept that often gets misunderstood or dismissed. They provide an overview of demand avoidance, clarifying that it goes beyond simply avoiding tasks one doesn't want to do. They explain the difference between autistic demand avoidance and PDA (pathological demand avoidance). They highlight that while autistic demand avoidance often has a specific, understandable reason behind it, PDA can involve internal confusion and turning against oneself. They touch upon the ongoing debate within the autistic community regarding the National Autistic Society's changed definition of PDA.
Exploring the therapeutic approach of sound play therapy
Leo and Shauna delve into the practice of sound play therapy, with Shauna sharing her expertise as a sound play therapist. They discuss the profound healing potential of sound play therapy and its connection to the limbic area of the brain. Shauna explains how sound play therapy provides a safe and symbolic space for individuals to explore their emotions and experiences non-verbally, particularly relevant for individuals with developmental trauma. They also explore the relationship between sound play therapy and autistic individuals, noting that autistic adults may access play more readily and find it helpful in their therapeutic journeys.
Contemplating resistance to discussing therapeutic work in the podcast
In this segment, Leo and Shauna delve into Shauna's initial resistance to talking about her therapeutic work in the podcast. They explore the underlying reasons for this resistance, including concerns about being perceived as self-promoting or inauthentic and the potential misinterpretation of her words. They discuss the importance of avoiding a competitive ego in therapy and striving for authenticity and congruence. Through their therapeutic conversation, they address these concerns and allow Shauna to navigate her comfort levels while sharing her experiences.
Leo enquires about Jungian Sandplay, a therapeutic modality Siana offers in her therapy practice. We explore Siana's demand avoidance about the prospect of speaking about this and then eventually get there in a perfectly autistic way.
This is a lovely illustration of "Takiwatanga" which we happened to post about on our Facebook feed this week. Takiwatanga is the Maori word for autism which translates as "in their own time and space".
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