Preet and Joyce speak with Jeffrey Goldberg, editor-in-chief of The Atlantic magazine, in front of a live audience at the Texas Tribune Festival in Austin, Texas.

Goldberg discusses his new book, On Heroism: McCain, Milley, Mattis, and the Cowardice of Donald Trump, which includes his reporting on Republican leaders and top White House officials who stood up to Trump while he was president, as well as Trump’s controversial statements reportedly calling members of the military “suckers” and “losers.” Goldberg also speaks about the media’s approach to covering Trump and the presidential election, and what a second Trump term might look like.

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Shownotes & transcript can be found at CAFE.com.

This podcast is brought to you by CAFE and Vox Media Podcast Network. This episode was recorded live at the 2024 Texas Tribune Festival in downtown Austin. For recaps from this year's recently concluded event and to stay updated on next year's program, visit TribFest.org.

CAFE Insider 9/10: Heroism & Trump’s Cowardice (with Jeffrey Goldberg)