Editor’s Note: This podcast was produced as part of Persuasion’s partnership with the Civil Discourse @ MIT program, at which Spencer Case spoke late last year on the topic “Does Citizenship Require Patriotism?” To learn more about Civil Discourse @ MIT, visit the program’s website here, and to see prior episodes in the series click here.

Spencer Case hosts Micro-Digressions: A Philosophy Podcast. He's the author of many academic philosophy articles and coauthor of Is Morality Real? A Debate. He is currently an assistant teaching professor in the Bowling Green State University philosophy department.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Spencer Case explore the difference between patriotism and nationalism, what extremists get wrong, and how to think about self-identification in the debate about trans rights.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clari t y .

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Podcast production by Mickey Freeland, and Leonora Barclay

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