In this conversation, Marc Gafni, Ken Wilber, and Zak Stein discuss the relationship between desire and value. They explore different perspectives on desire, ranging from it being a degraded condition to it being a deed that can be controlled. They argue that desire is a condition and that clarifying desire is a way to honor its dignity. They also discuss the concept of value and its connection to prehension, emphasizing that value is both a product and a cause of prehension. They introduce the term 'Eros value' to describe the interplay between desire and value. The conversation concludes with a discussion on the need for a new language and grammar of value.

00:00 Exploring the Concept of Value

04:40 The Role of Holons and Desire

09:01 Chemistry as the Music of Desire

12:43 The Periodic Table of Desire Value

17:23 Understanding Will and Desire

23:00 The Dignity of Desire

31:26 Desire as a Condition

36:18 Value as a Product and Cause of Prehension

45:27 Introducing Eros Value

49:58 The Need for a New Language and Grammar of Value