The Internet, Power, and the Deep State: Zeynep Tufekci on Technology and Democracy Today
Feb 26, 2025
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Zeynep Tufekci, a New York Times columnist and Princeton professor, delves into the intricate ties between technology and democracy. She discusses how social media shapes political movements and influences public trust in institutions, especially under a changing U.S. administration. The conversation also covers Elon Musk's impact on European politics, contrasting hate speech laws in the U.S. and Germany, and the dangers of unchecked governmental power. Tufekci calls for urgent reforms to safeguard democracy amid rising surveillance concerns.
Zeynep Tufekci illustrates how social media platforms can both empower democratic movements and facilitate authoritarian interests, impacting governance and accountability.
The podcast highlights the importance of rebuilding public trust in institutions post-pandemic to effectively manage future health crises and political challenges.
Deep dives
The Impact of Technology on Protest and Governance
The complex relationship between technology, protest movements, and governance is emphasized, particularly with the influence of powerful social media platforms like Twitter. Zeynep Tufekci discusses how these platforms can empower democratic movements but also align with authoritarian interests, impacting freedom and accountability. She gives historical context, highlighting how the alignment of political power and technology has been seen before, warning that this could lead to censorship and increased authoritarianism. The case of the Trump administration is used as a current illustration of how technology may shape both political strategy and public discourse.
Challenges in Handling Future Pandemics
The discussion pivots to the dynamics of pandemics, particularly focusing on the aftermath of the COVID-19 pandemic and potential future threats like the bird flu. Tufekci critiques public health authorities for damaging public trust through poor communication strategies during the pandemic response, suggesting that their attempts to nudge public behavior created further skepticism. She emphasizes the need for transparent dialogue about uncertainties and the limitations of current health systems to effectively manage future crises. The conversation highlights a persistent risk of emerging infections and the inadequacies of existing policies to deal with them.
Shifts in Political Values and Authoritarian Tendencies
The podcast examines the significant shifts in political culture and values, particularly in light of recent political events and rising authoritarianism. Tufekci recalls historical lessons from Turkey, illustrating how entrenched power dynamics can lead to democracy's erosion when oversight systems fail. The discussion emphasizes the urgent need for consistent reinforcement of democratic institutions and the dangers posed by unchecked political power. Tufekci warns that when powerful entities—like Elon Musk—collaborate with governments, such alliances could undermine democratic norms and freedoms.
The Role of Civil Service and Checks on Power
Tufekci explores the concept of the 'deep state' within the U.S. context, contrasting it with historical interpretations of the term from Turkey. She notes the potential for the civil service to act beyond its intended role, especially when congressional oversight is weakened. This dynamic, she argues, may lead to greater concentration of power in the executive branch, posing significant risks to democratic governance. The conversation culminates in a call for more rigorous congressional engagement to restore checks and balances that have eroded over time.
As the second Trump administration reshapes the U.S. government and its role in the world, how do technology, media, and political power intersect? In this episode of International Horizons, host John Torpey speaks with Zeynep Tufekci—New York Times columnist, Princeton professor, and author of Twitter and Tear Gas—about the evolving relationship between social media platforms, political movements, and democracy. From the shifting role of the internet in global protests to Elon Musk’s interventions in European politics, Tufekci unpacks the historical patterns shaping today’s political landscape. The conversation also explores the erosion of public trust in institutions, the implications of a weakened federal government, and the risks of unchecked technological influence. Tune in for a deep dive into the forces reshaping democracy at home and abroad.