Writer Graham Hancock discusses the theory of a lost civilization during the Ice Age, challenged by archaeologist Flint Dibble. Razib explains the lack of evidence for a global advanced civilization from the Pleistocene, but considers the existence of stillborn cultures. The podcast delves into the origins of civilizations, the debate between pseudo-science and scientific certainty, and the role of genetic evidence in understanding ancient societies.
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insights INSIGHT
Redefining Civilization
Razib Khan critiques ChatGPT's definition of civilization, finding "writing" more crucial than "symbolic communication."
He questions if advanced infrastructure or organized religion are truly essential, citing early Chinese society.
question_answer ANECDOTE
Hancock vs. Dibble
Razib Khan recounts a debate on the Joe Rogan show between Graham Hancock and archaeologist Flint Dibble.
He notes his online disagreement with Dibble, admitting Dibble is "90% right" but too certain.
insights INSIGHT
Hancock's Narrative
Razib Khan acknowledges the allure of Graham Hancock's "lost civilization" narrative, but believes it's likely false.
Hancock's claims, while individually interesting, become less probable within a broader context.
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On this episode of Unsupervised Learning Razib discusses the idea of “lost civilizations,” the possibility that there were complex societies during the Pleistocene Ice Age. This topic recently rose to salience after a dialogue between writer Graham Hancock and archaeologist Flint Dibble on Joe Rogan’s podcast. Hancock is a longtime guest on Rogan’s show and he promotes a theory that an advanced “lost civilization” during the Ice Age left remnants of its culture across the world, for example the pyramids of both Egypt and the New World. In the exchange, Dibble, a vigorous online critic of pseudo-archaeology came back with scientific orthodoxy; civilization emerged after the end of the Ice Age, and there is no evidence for anything during the Pleistocene.
Razib explains why evidence from biology makes it clear that Hancock is almost certainly wrong. No massively advanced global civilization during the Ice Age left its imprint across the world. Though the archaeological evidence is strong, the data from DNA is even more unambiguously robust and informative. But then Razib steps back and asks what “civilization” is, and presents the possibility that stillborn cultures might have existed during the Ice Age. Civilizations that left no descendants and barely any archaeological footprint. He also argues that the modern conception of civilization starting in Sumer and Egypt 5,000 years ago is simplistic, and American ideas about an arrow of history ascending onward and upward tend to be misleading as a guide to the past. Though the orthodox view is mostly right, there are always gaps in our knowledge and surprises around the corner. Graham Hancock’s enthusiasm for what we can know is commendable, his conclusions long ago outpaced his evidence. In the future, understanding the past will be done with even more powerful tools, but we must proceed with humility upon the foundations of all we know while acknowledging what we don’t.
Razib Khan's Unsupervised Learning 