Renée DiResta, a leading researcher on misinformation, dives into the chaotic world of digital influence and propaganda. She explores how social media distorts public consensus and heightens polarization. DiResta shares her insights on vaccine discourse during the pandemic and reveals the role of the Stanford Internet Observatory in studying online adversarial behavior. The podcast also critiques the misconception of social media as a public square, highlighting the power dynamics and misinformation that threaten electoral integrity.
Renée DiResta emphasizes the distinction between harmful propaganda and benign persuasion, highlighting the ethical implications of influencing public opinion in modern discourse.
The rise of niche communities on social media has fostered echo chambers that distort consensus and increase polarization, complicating cross-ideological dialogue.
Audience capture significantly affects content creators, driving them towards extreme positions to maintain engagement, ultimately undermining honest discourse and moderation.
Deep dives
Trump's Controversial Performance
Trump's recent appearance at the National Association of Black Journalists raised eyebrows with his controversial remarks, particularly when he questioned Kamala Harris's racial identity in front of a predominantly Black audience. This incident highlighted Trump's outdated understanding of race and politics, evoking the trope of a bygone era where racial ignorance was more commonplace. Observers noted Trump's strange hand gestures and responses, which suggested a disconnect from contemporary social issues. The response from Harris has been measured, allowing her surrogates to address the comments while maintaining an air of grace, which may serve her better in the long run.
Harris's Strategic Shift
There is a strong argument suggesting that Kamala Harris need to pivot her strategy to the center of the political spectrum to avoid potential pitfalls in her electoral prospects. References point to past moments in her 2020 campaign where she aligned with far-left ideologies, which could create vulnerabilities if they re-emerge in future debates or interviews. Key topics such as police funding and gender identity laws pose significant risks for her candidacy if not navigated carefully. A proposed strategy involves crafting a message that resonates across a broader spectrum while shedding more extreme positions, creating a path for political sustainability.
Renee DiResta's Work on Misinformation
Renee DiResta, a researcher focused on the abuse of information technologies, addresses misinformation and its impacts on public discourse in her new book, 'Invisible Rulers.' Her work delves into various forms of propaganda and the role of social media in shaping narratives, especially regarding elections and health. DiResta outlines the intricate dynamics behind misinformation campaigns, analyzing how foreign powers manipulate public perception through targeted messaging. Her insights shed light on the significance of understanding these operations in the context of upcoming elections.
The Nature of Propaganda vs. Persuasion
DiResta distinguishes between propaganda and benign persuasion, explaining how propaganda has evolved into a term carrying negative connotations post-World War II. Propaganda serves as a systematic effort to influence beliefs and behaviors using biased or misleading information, often hidden beneath an unclear agenda. In contrast, persuasion respects the audience's autonomy, aiming to shape opinions through ethical emotional appeals. This nuanced understanding is vital in the current information landscape, where distinguishing between harmful and helpful influence can be complex.
Niche Communities and Opinion Formation
The emergence of niche communities and targeted messaging on social media has significantly transformed how public opinions are formed. DiResta emphasizes that unlike mass media, social media allows for tailored narratives that can influence specific groups, often creating echo chambers that obscure broader perspectives. Within these closed communities, users engage primarily with like-minded individuals, fostering a sense of consensus that may not reflect the actual diversity of opinions. This fragmentation of media fosters increased polarization, complicating dialogue and mutual understanding across ideological divides.
The Consequences of Audience Capture
The phenomenon of audience capture has emerged as a significant factor influencing content creators and public figures, leading them to cater increasingly to their most vocal supporters. This dynamic can drive influencers toward more extreme positions, further radicalizing their narratives and perspectives as they seek to maintain engagement and loyalty among their audience. DiResta highlights how financial incentives associated with attention and engagement can exacerbate this trend, resulting in a race to the bottom as influencers feel compelled to produce more outrageous content. In this environment, honest discourse and moderation become increasingly rare, as creators sacrifice integrity for popularity.
Sam Harris speaks with Renée DiResta about the state of our information landscape. They discuss the difference between influence and propaganda, shifts in communication technology, influencers and closed communities, the asymmetry of passion online and the illusion of consensus, the unwillingness to criticize one's own side, audience capture, what we should have learned from the Covid pandemic, what is unique about vaccines, Renée's work at the Stanford Internet Observatory, her experience of being smeared by Michael Shellenberger and Matt Taibbi, Elon Musk and the Twitter files, the false analogy of social media as a digital public square, the imagined "censorship-industrial complex," the 2024 presidential election, and other topics.
Renée DiResta is a social media researcher and the author of Invisible Rulers: The People Who Turn Lies Into Reality. Her work focuses on adversarial abuse online, including child safety issues, spammers and scammers, and influence campaigns run by state actors. From 2019 to 2023, she was the Technical Research Manager at the Stanford Internet Observatory, a cross-disciplinary program of research, teaching, and policy engagement for the study of abuse in current information technologies.
Renée has advised Congress and the executive branch, as well as academic, civic, and business organizations on technology policy and trust & safety topics, including information operations, generative AI, election security, data transparency, and child safety.
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