Ep 366: Arghya Sengupta and the Engine Room of Law
Jan 29, 2024
auto_awesome
"The Seen and the Unseen" hosted Amit Varma features guest Arghya Sengupta, influential in shaping legal policy. They discuss problems in India, the design of the Indian state, Bengali language dialects, the speaker's journey in law school, nuclear liability legislation, the lawmaking process in India, flaws in the constitution, power and criticism, evolution of the constitution, differences in constitutional frameworks, the importance of books in constitutional discourse, and the potential transformation of law by artificial intelligence.
Law school encouraged critical thinking and recognizing nuance in discussions.
Returning to India reinforced the commitment to make a positive impact in the country.
Developing a legal framework true to India's cultural context is essential.
Genuine engagement with the government can shape better laws.
Shaping public narratives is crucial for bringing about long-term change.
Balancing independence and impact is vital while engaging with the government.
Deep dives
Formative Years in Law School
Law school provided a transformative experience for me. It was a time of intellectual growth and questioning previously held notions. The atmosphere in the classroom encouraged us to think critically and challenge conventional ideas. We were exposed to diverse perspectives and engaged in spirited debates. This taught me the value of complexity and the importance of recognizing nuance in discussions. I realized that answers to complex issues are not always black and white, and it is okay to hold different views. It was also during this time that I began to understand the complexities of India as a nation and grappled with questions of identity and allegiance. Overall, law school broadened my horizons and shaped my intellectual evolution.
Evolution of Purpose
After law school, my sense of purpose continued to evolve. During my time in England, pursuing further studies at Oxford, I gained clarity about my commitment to India. I realized that I did not feel a sense of belonging in England and that law functions differently in different cultural contexts. This understanding reinforced my desire to make a positive impact in India. I recognized that India's diversity and complexity should be celebrated, and I wanted to contribute to the development and progress of the country. This experience solidified my decision to return to India and work towards fostering positive change.
Challenges Inspired Clarity of Purpose
During my time abroad, I also became acutely aware of the cultural context in which law operates. I witnessed the stark differences between legal systems and cultural norms. This realization made it clear to me that we should not aim to simply replicate foreign legal systems, but instead, develop a legal framework that is true to our unique cultural context. It further reinforced my commitment to focus on addressing the specific challenges and issues faced by India. I understood that my purpose was to contribute to the betterment of the country by navigating the complex and dynamic legal landscape.
Importance of Engaging with the Government
Engaging with the government is crucial in bringing about better laws. The government is the largest change agent in the country, and to make real change happen, it is essential to work with them. There is a recognition that the government is not a monolith, and within the bureaucratic machinery, there are individuals who genuinely want to make a difference. In the process of engaging with the government, it is important to provide high-quality research and independent legal advice. While it is necessary to present one's perspective, it is also crucial to acknowledge that the ultimate decision lies with the government. Having an open mind and genuine spirit of engagement can facilitate the process of shaping better laws.
The Power of Shaping the Public Narrative
Shaping the public narrative plays a significant role in bringing about long-term change. Engaging and influencing public opinion is crucial, especially for reforms that require a shift in societal values. By humanizing the issues and presenting them in a relatable manner, it becomes easier to garner support and understanding. Public narratives help in creating an environment that is receptive to change and can challenge prevailing sentiments. This process often takes time, but it is instrumental in pushing for reforms in areas related to social justice, healthcare, education, and other generational reforms. Public engagement serves to shift the Overton window and make previously extreme positions more mainstream.
Balancing Independence and Impact
Balancing independence and impact is a delicate endeavor. Complete independence means staying separate from the government and maintaining purity of thought, at the risk of limited impact. On the other hand, complete impact would mean unquestioningly serving the government's agenda without maintaining independence. Striking a balance between the two is vital. Maintaining integrity while engaging with the government requires providing independent advice, presenting research-backed perspectives, and recognizing the limitations of influence. Recognizing that the ultimate decision-making power lies with the government allows for better collaboration, while still upholding core values and principles. It is a process of navigating towards impactful change while preserving independence.
Lengthy Constitution and Distrust of People
The length of our constitution, highlighted by being the longest in the world, reflects a lingering colonial sentiment. It demonstrates a lack of trust in the people and their ability to make decisions, perpetuating the view that the state must have detailed control and regulation. This distrust is evident in provisions such as the inclusion of specific details about exports of jute in Article 273, which could have been left to negotiations between states. The presence of such provisions in the constitution reveals a lack of faith in elected representatives and a continuation of the colonial mindset.
Perpetuation of Colonial Institutions
The perpetuation of colonial institutions is another indication of the colonial nature of our constitution. Institutions such as the police service and the Indian Administrative Service, which were established by the British, are still in place. By preserving these institutions without significant reform, we uphold the hierarchical structure and centralized control that characterized colonial rule. This perpetuation hampers the transformation of power dynamics and prevents the development of a more modern and equitable system.
Continuation of Centralized Authority
The constitution also establishes a government that maintains hierarchical power and control over the citizens, similar to how colonial governments functioned. This can be observed in the dilution of fundamental rights, the presence of preventive detention, and the persistence of central authority over states. These aspects reflect a top-down governance approach and a persistent systemic imbalance of power.
The Need for Institutional Reform
The podcast episode discusses the lack of institutional reform in the Indian police service and the repercussions of maintaining a colonial system without any incentives or training for policemen to behave differently. The speaker emphasizes that this lack of reform perpetuated the brutalization of Indians by the police force, rather than serving them.
The Role of the State in Democracy
The podcast explores the deliberate decision made by the framers of the Indian constitution to have a state that towers over its citizens. This decision was based on the belief that the citizens were not ready for democracy and needed the state to have significant power. The speaker criticizes the provision in the constitution that legitimized preventive detention and questions why a more idealistic and rights-centric approach was not taken.
Challenges of Decolonization and Evolving the Constitution
The podcast examines the challenges of decolonization and the need for a constitution that evolves to meet the changing needs of society. It highlights the importance of critically engaging with the constitution and reevaluating provisions that may no longer be relevant. The speaker argues that decolonization should involve changing the power dynamic between the state and the citizen, empowering individuals, and considering the significance of duties alongside rights.
