Robert Wright joins AP and Nonzero to discuss the future of Gaza and Israel. Topics include mainstream Israelis' support for ethnic cleansing, Biden's calculations on Israel-Palestine, left-wing foreign policy today, and the political reflexes of the Democratic Party.
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Quick takeaways
Israel's policies in response to threats are seen as proportionate, similar to the US post-9/11 actions.
Efforts by the US to intervene in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are doubted due to deep-rooted support for Israel within US political institutions.
Deep dives
Assessment of both sides' arguments
The speaker discusses his assessment of both sides' arguments in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. He notes that people on both sides are behaving in ways consistent with human nature. He criticizes Israel's policies but acknowledges that they act in proportion to threats, comparing their actions to the US response after 9/11. He also highlights the sentiment in Israel that the world already hates Jews and that this influences their perspective. The speaker criticizes the Israeli left for being in denial about who is running the country and the increasing extremism within the Israeli government.
Ineffectiveness of US efforts to intervene
The podcast participants express skepticism about the effectiveness of US efforts to intervene and broker a ceasefire in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. They mention the Biden administration's discussion of using weapon sales as leverage to urge Israel to scale back its military actions in Gaza. However, they doubt that such efforts will be successful, considering the deep-rooted support for Israel within US political institutions. They also criticize the administration's messaging, including using terms like 'heartbroken,' viewing it as a political strategy rather than a genuine commitment to change.
Lack of political interest among the young
The podcast participants discuss the lack of political interest among young people in the United States. They observe that many young Americans feel hopeless about the future and don't believe that politicians will bring about meaningful change. They highlight the disconnect between the politicians' promises, like canceling student debt, and the actual implementation of these policies. They argue that the political discussion in the country has become weak and that the left-right dichotomy no longer adequately captures the complex issues at hand.
The challenge of persuading political leaders
The podcast participants express doubts about the possibility of persuading political leaders, especially those with entrenched beliefs, to change their perspectives on foreign policy. They point out that many leaders and their acolytes have formed their beliefs decades ago and are not open to reconsidering them. They also mention that political opinions tend to solidify early in life, making it difficult to change these views. They suggest that focusing on attacking the structural aspects of the empire, rather than persuading individual politicians, may be more effective in effecting change.
Welcome to the third installment of the collaboration between AP and Nonzero Newsletter! Paid subscribers get a discounted membership to Nonzero— just scroll below the paywall near the bottom of the description, where you’ll also find the video for the Overtime segment.
0:00 Another high-synergy collaborative episode1:14 Do mainstream Israelis support ethnic cleansing?10:28 Biden’s electoral (mis?)calculations on Israel-Palestine 20:46 What does a left-wing foreign policy vision look like today?