KOL357 | Free Man Beyond The Wall Ep. 631 with Pete Quiñones: Biden’s Mandate and Getting to a Hoppean Framework

Kinsella on Liberty Podcast, Episode 357. I was a guest recently on Peter Quiñones' show Free Man Beyond The Wall, Episode 631 (Sept. 15, 2021). From his shownotes: Pete and Stephan discuss the Constitutionality of Biden's vaccine mandate and then get into discussions about Hoppe's plan for local politics and how it can fight against overreach by the Feds. I post this from Bodrum, Turkey, at the 2021 PFS meeting, watching Saif Ammous talk about bitcoin. The internet is wonderful. Grok shownotes: In this episode of the Free Man Beyond the Wall podcast, host Pete Quinones welcomes back patent attorney and author Stephan Kinsella to discuss pressing libertarian issues, starting with Joe Biden’s vaccine mandate announced in September 2021 (1:00-3:39). Kinsella critiques the mandate as unjust and potentially unconstitutional, predicting a 60% chance it survives legal challenges, though it may be struck down as illegal under current OSHA rules. The conversation explores the broader implications of federal overreach, contrasting it with state-level responses like Florida’s resistance under Governor DeSantis, which Kinsella views as strategically preferable despite its own libertarian shortcomings (5:02-9:20). They also touch on the cultural mania surrounding COVID policies, with Quinones expressing shock at public compliance and Kinsella noting the temporary nature of these measures compared to enduring state injustices like war and taxation (15:01-20:05). The discussion shifts to deeper libertarian strategies, drawing heavily on Hans-Hermann Hoppe’s ideas of decentralization and covenant communities as a path to liberty (22:00-39:46). Kinsella advocates for nullification and secession as bold responses to federal mandates, emphasizing the importance of local politics and natural elites in fostering decentralized, voluntary societies (8:25-9:58, 44:42-47:37). They critique the left’s egalitarian chaos versus the right’s hierarchical order, aligning with Hoppe’s view of natural hierarchies as essential for a free society (41:15-44:37). The episode concludes with reflections on global COVID responses, particularly Australia’s authoritarian measures, and the potential for secession movements in the U.S. as federalism persists (30:58-36:04). Kinsella and Quinones also briefly address contentious libertarian topics like intellectual property, abortion, and borders, underscoring the need for anarchist solutions to resolve these intractable issues (49:19-50:38). Transcript and grok analysis/summary below. https://youtu.be/jFYMO6wzO8c             Transcript 0:00 people people people richard Grobe is starting season six of his autonomy 0:05 course and you really should be there i don't think I could have gotten through the last 16 months of this world without 0:14 the skills that Richard Grove gave me so head on over to freemanbyondtheall.comutonomy 0:22 check it out there's two links there one's to an overview of the course another is to a 19 skills PDF download 0:29 go check out that video sign up for the course and get on Richard's level thank 0:35 you [Music] 0:49 [Music] 1:00 hello everyone i want to welcome you to the Free Man Beyond the Wall podcast this is your host Pinz i invited Stefan 1:06 Consella to return to the show stefan is a patent attorney and he wrote the book 1:13 against intellectual property i asked Stefan to come on and answer some 1:19 questions about Joe Biden's mandate how constitutional he thinks it is what he 1:25 thinks is going to happen with it does he think that states are going to nullify it and then we're just going to 1:31 start talking about a host of subjects we're going to get into some hapa we're going to get into some local politics 1:38 and we just get into a conversation like we normally have when we're talking by ourselves 1:44 so without any further delay here is Stefan Canella 1:49 canella my man how are you doing i'm doing well how you doing good man let's just jump right in because you are I am 1:57 so jealous of where you are leaving to go tonight uh you want to tell everybody i'm heading tonight to uh Bodum Turkey 2:05 through Istanbul with uh several of my friends are going too greg Moran from 2:10 Atlanta and Juan Carpio from Ecuador u who you know I think you met some 2:15 Anthony Samuroff um is going too and lots of Sedina Moose is going um of 2:21 course Hans will be there ho will be there so uh yeah this may be my 10th time we started this in 2006 I believe i 2:30 missed a few because of kid issues but um we missed last year of course because of COVID so I think it's a truncated 2:36 group this year because of COVID we'll see when I get there it could be smaller more intimate but anyway I'm I'm looking forward to it cool making plans for next 2:43 year wish I was one of that group okay so let's just jump right in what are you 2:48 making of this mandate last week that Biden came up with and what do you think 2:54 the courts are going to say about it i haven't I I don't know i mean my first 2:59 impulse is that it's outrageous of course but then you know there's lots of things the state has done the last 200 3:06 years which are outrageous and they just didn't get reported as much because it was before the internet i mean I'm not 3:12 so sure that uh it's beyond OSHA's purview because everything else OSHA does is insane too um 3:20 the best theory I've heard is that it will be struck down as illegal but not unconstitutional so uh Congress will 3:27 have to revise the OSHA rules or something like that to let them do this but I wouldn't bet on it i'd say there's 3:32 a 60% chance it will it will it will survive um which which is crazy i think 3:39 it's totally unjust and unlbertarian and um I would say unamerican but apparently it's not what do you think 3:47 completely insane i mean we've gone off the rails in 18 months if you would have told me back in January of last year 3:57 half the things that have happened people people have embraced and talked about federalism 4:03 the governor of California re referred to California as its own nation and then 4:12 that people would just not only comply Yeah with what every 4:18 with everything but become warriors for it almost like you know hey you know my 4:23 grandfather fought in World War II and he did his part and this is me doing my part and you know all I need to do is 4:30 stay home or yeah wear a mask and scallop people who aren't wearing masks 4:35 or get this vaccine that you know I mean just a a strange mania has overtaken the 4:42 nation i don't understand why because we've had previous pandemics and we didn't have this happen maybe it just 4:49 Jeff Tucker and others have tried to explain why i still don't quite get it but um I'm not quite as I mean I'm not 4:56 as much of a vaccine skeptic I think as some other people so I mean I'm still as a libertarian I'm against all the policy 5:02 issues the same way as you uh you and I had a little maybe disagreement on the Florida thing uh and the interesting 5:09 that happened before this Biden thing so my first thought was I guess I spoke too soon opposing Dantis but the 5:16 more I thought about it I still think I I'm back to my original view so in both cases you have the the federal 5:23 government trying to tell businesses what to do they're trying to tell them you have to insist that employees are 5:30 vaccinated and in Dantis' case he's telling them what to do he's saying you cannot request that or you cannot uh 5:37 require your employees to be vaccinated so technically they're both unlbertarian 5:42 right but of course you know I guess you're looking at it from more strategic or overall forest for the trees point of 5:48 view which one is really worse we know which one's the big enemy as always it's the federal government and the central state and in this case you know it's 5:56 worse to force people to inject the vaccine into their body than to uh suffer a fine for asking your employees 6:03 to you know prove that they're vaccinated I guess so I guess that's how I come down on it but I still think 6:09 they're both unlbertarian I guess is my my my my perspective yeah I think it and 6:15 I agree i mean private property is not is just out the 6:20 window at this point i mean correct the idea of it and I just look at what what's more 6:28 strategic at this point so when you have when you have 18 months of insanity 6:33 and you've seen people suffer and you've I mean I I know p personal horror 6:41 stories that I I don't even I don't even talk about because I don't have permission to talk about them and 6:49 you just look and you're like okay so you know I was in Georgia up until recently i left Georgia and moved to the 6:55 Midwest um a couple months ago and Georgia came out of it and last week in 7:02 April last year said businesses can reopen if they want to and a lot of businesses reopen and stayed open um 7:09 cities did mandates which you know is really not I'd rather cities do mandates 7:15