Nick Cave and Seán O'Hagan on grief, faith and navigating disagreement
Jan 18, 2023
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Guests Nick Cave and Seán O'Hagan discuss faith, religion, and grief in this thought-provoking podcast. They explore the transformative power of grief and touch on their shared experience writing their book together. The conversation also delves into topics such as the complexity of faith, pursuing better dialogue, and forgiveness within the Christian liturgical calendar. A fascinating exploration of deep topics by two insightful individuals.
Embracing complexity and uncertainty is crucial for creativity and personal growth.
There is a need for deeper conversations about faith, spirituality, and the human condition.
Vulnerability, connection, and empathy can bridge divisions and offer comfort in times of grief and loss.
Deep dives
The Power of Deep Reflection on Values and Differences
In this podcast episode, journalist Sean O'Hagan and musician Nick Cave have a candid and deep conversation about their values, differences, and the importance of building empathy. Despite their contrasting viewpoints and a desire to understand each other's perspectives, they engage in a good-faith conversation that promotes curiosity and open-mindedness. Their discussion revolves around sacred values, such as community, art, and religion, as well as the themes of grief and loss. Throughout the conversation, they explore the role of skepticism, doubt, and forgiveness in their lives and how these factors impact their creativity and relationships.
The Importance of Openness to Complexity and Mystery
Nick Cave and Sean O'Hagan discuss the significance of embracing complexity and mystery in life. They emphasize that a certain level of uncertainty and doubt is essential for creativity and personal growth. While they express skepticism towards organized religion, they also appreciate the sacred aspects found in nature, music, and intimate relationships. The conversation touches on the transformative power of grief and loss, which has deepened their understanding of life's fragile and transient nature. They also reflect on the need for forgiveness, humility, and the willingness to listen as key elements in fostering connection and understanding in a divided world.
Breaking the Taboo of Discussing Religion and Spirituality
The podcast explores the challenges of talking openly about religion and spirituality in contemporary society. Nick Cave and Sean O'Hagan highlight how public discourse often diminishes the complexity and nuance of faith, leading to a simplistic and clichéd portrayal. They suggest that there is a growing hunger for deeper conversations about metaphysical longings, meaning, and the human condition. The conversation delves into the role of ritual, repentance, and forgiveness, highlighting how these practices contribute to personal growth and the search for transcendence. They emphasize the importance of creating a safe space where conversations about faith can take place, regardless of one's belief or skepticism.
The Healing Power of Connection and Vulnerability
Nick Cave and Sean O'Hagan discuss the transformative power of vulnerability and connection in overcoming divisions and polarization. They explore how genuine conversations and deep listening can forge stronger bonds and offer comfort in times of grief and loss. Through their own experiences, they highlight the significance of allowing oneself to be seen and understood, even when facing doubts and uncertainties. They emphasize the importance of forgiveness, empathy, and the capacity to hold space for others, offering a glimpse of hope for a more compassionate and understanding society.
The Value of Living an Examined Life
The podcast episode encourages listeners to embrace the value of living an examined life, reflecting on one's beliefs, principles, and values. Nick Cave and Sean O'Hagan discuss how personal growth and self-reflection can lead to a deeper understanding of oneself and the world. They express the need for individuals to question their own beliefs and biases and engage in open dialogue across differences. The conversation also touches upon the role of art, music, and creativity as powerful tools for self-expression and understanding the human experience.
Nick Cave is a multi award-winning Australian rock singer-songwriter who over his 40+ year long career has seen the release of countless records, film scores, and writings. Seán O’Hagan is an award-winning journalist for the The Guardian with a speciality in photography.
The two of them spoke about faith and religion, the transformative nature of grief, and the experience of writing their book Faith, Hope and Carnage together.
Read the full transcript here: https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2023/01/18/nick-cave-and-sen-ohagan-on-grief-faith-and-navigating-disagreement
Buy a copy of Faith, Hope and Carnage here: https://store.nickcave.com/products/faith-hope-and-carnage?variant=39745220706370&gclid=Cj0KCQiAiJSeBhCCARIsAHnAzT825KTMDyylIfsYWZMOeO9Sl2vpBly9Dr69h7ovz3E5CIAFBux6e-oaAtMJEALw_wcB
CHAPTERS
00:00 Intro
02:53 What do you hold sacred? Seán O'Hagan's response.
06:09 Disagreements about faith and religion
11:10 Nick Cave's sacred value
15:32 The transcendent nature of grief
23:54 Faith, Grief, Art and Surrender
27:47 Nick Cave's faith and theology
36:40 The true complexity of faith
40:44 The universal experience of grief
47:31 ‘I/Thou’ moments and pursuing better dialogue
55:50 Forgiveness and the Christian liturgical calendar
01:05:38 Reflection and outro
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