Stuart Hameroff on Penrose, Self-Similar Consciousness, and Time Travelling Free Will (technical)
Mar 4, 2021
auto_awesome
Stuart Hameroff, an anesthesiologist and professor at the University of Arizona, dives deep into the mysteries of consciousness tied to quantum mechanics. He explains how microtubules may hold the key to our understanding of consciousness, proposing that they enable quantum processes in the brain. The conversation explores time perception and the influence of stressful experiences on consciousness, while also touching on fascinating studies linking psychedelics to brain activity. Hameroff challenges conventional beliefs, raising thought-provoking questions on free will and the interconnectedness of all existence.
Consciousness may stem from quantum states in microtubules, challenging traditional views.
Quantum coherence effects in proteins hint at potential consciousness in microtubules.
Stuart Hameroff values independence in research pursuits, defying societal norms and funding.
Conscious quantum computers may require warm temperature coherence and geometric lattice paths.
Deep dives
Consciousness Theory Collaboration with Stuart Hammeroff and Roger Penrose
Stuart Hammeroff and Roger Penrose's joint theory challenges the prevailing view of consciousness by suggesting that consciousness supervenes on cognition rather than the reverse. Their collaboration involves writing a chapter for a book on Quantum Mechanics in Consciousness. Despite being meticulous, Penrose's ideas often lead to slow progress in their work. Their theory explores the relationship between quantum superposition and consciousness, addressing the impact of psychedelics on altering brain frequencies. The collaboration delves into intricate areas, such as retroactivity and backward time effects, to offer new insights into consciousness.
Response to Criticism on Microtubules
Critics of the Penrose-Hammeroff hypothesis, including Pat Churchland and Rick Rusk, dismissed their ideas as unsubstantiated, labeling them a 'pipe dream' akin to a caterpillar with hookah in reference to Alice in Wonderland. A preemptive attack piece critiqued the non-computability argument and the role of microtubules in consciousness. The Penrose-Hammeroff response efficiently refuted the criticism, showcasing the strength of their theory through a rapid and detailed rebuttal.
Quantum Coherence in Tubulin Proteins with Anesthesia Effects
Quantum coherence effects in proteins are measured using 2D electron spectroscopy. A protein called FMO showed quantum interference patterns indicative of superposition. Tubulin proteins, larger than FMO, will be tested for quantum coherence, potentially altered by anesthetics. Confirmation would support quantum effects in microtubules.
Microtubules and Cognitive Architecture Theories in Consciousness
Microtubules in pyramidal neurons, with mixed polarity and interrupted microtubules, play a key role in potential consciousness. Contrast to cognitive architecture theories like IIT or GWM, focusing on neurons, consciousness may involve movement within the cortex's layer five neurons with lateral connections.
Quantum Computing Consciousness Potential
Building a conscious quantum computer requires avoiding decoherence and creating coherence at warm temperatures. Geometric lattice paths and resonances within the artificial material could lead to consciousness. Proposed exploration with graphene or fullerenes for a bio-like consciousness model.
Stuart's Dedication to Unconventional Theory and Independence
Stuart and his colleague's theory entails enduring criticism for years, standing against prevailing norms, demonstrating gallantry in pursuing unconventional ideas. Despite the hardships and being labeled unconventional, Stuart values his independence, engaging in research not reliant on external funding or societal expectations, committing to transformative theories as a personal pursuit beyond livelihood concerns.
Exploring Consciousness, Whitehead's Philosophy, and Brain Functionality
The discussion delves into the nature of consciousness, referencing Whitehead's philosophy that consciousness is not a property of matter but an event, akin to quantum state reductions. Stuart's viewpoint emphasizes consciousness as an evolving sequence of events occurring in a broader experiential realm. The dialogue touches on treating cognitive disorders via microtubule vibrations, showcasing potential effects on mental states. Additionally, the exploration extends to the varying levels and complexities of consciousness, intertwined with neural signals' role in supporting theoretical network properties.
Stuart Hameroff is an American anesthesiologist and professor at the University of Arizona known for his studies of consciousness and contention that consciousness originates from quantum states in neural microtubules, partnering with Roger Penrose to explicate on the physics involved.
TOE Clippings: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdITf9DoFmndXy7nXWIoa7g Discord Invite Code (as of Mar 04 2021): dmGgQ2dRzS Subreddit r/TheoriesOfEverything: https://reddit.com/r/theoriesofeverything
Patreon for conversations on Theories of Everything, Consciousness, Free Will, and God: https://patreon.com/curtjaimungal Help support conversations like this via PayPal: https://bit.ly/2EOR0M4 Twitter: https://twitter.com/TOEwithCurt iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/better-left-unsaid-with-curt-jaimungal/id1521758802 Pandora: https://pdora.co/33b9lfP Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4gL14b92xAErofYQA7bU4e Google Podcasts: https://play.google.com/music/listen?u=0#/ps/Id3k7k7mfzahfx2fjqmw3vufb44 iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/better-left-unsaid-with-curt-jaimungal/id1521758802
00:00:00 Introduction 00:02:18 For 73, how does Hameroff stay fast and adroit? 00:02:58 On Hameroff's personal beliefs of God 00:03:44 How did Stuart come to the idea that consciousness arises in microtubules? 00:08:55 The non-computational nature of consciousness and the hard-problem 00:11:56 Gödel's theorem and quantum gravity / superposition 00:16:54 Quantum computers and Frolich resonances 00:19:25 Roger Penrose enters in the picture where / when / how? 00:23:45 David Chalmer's legendary talk was at the conference Hameroff organized 00:26:33 Penrose modified Hameroff's ideas 00:28:04 The vibrations of consciousness (Gamma) 00:32:00 Details on the calculations of the collapse time of tubulin and microtubules 00:38:07 The myth of the 1% of the brain 00:41:33 Firing rates of neurons during psychedelics and how the brain seemingly "decreases" 00:46:42 Which comes first, cognition or consciousness? 00:48:27 Anesthesia and "truth serums" (disinhibition revealing inner truths?) 00:50:04 What's it like to work with Penrose? What's an example of a problem you're working on? 00:57:00 Free-will as travelling backward in time (Libett's experiments) 01:01:36 Dennett won't comment on his theories 01:02:33 Agreements / disagreements with Penrose 01:06:16 Explaining terms: Isolated systems, phases of quantum computing, gamma synchrony 01:11:40 Explaining terms: Benzine rings, non-polar, and hydrophobic 01:13:08 Structure of the microtubules 01:17:33 Tau proteins and Alzheimer's 01:17:00 Fractals / self-similarity and its relation to consciousness 01:20:06 Quantifying consciousness with anesthesia 01:21:42 Glial cells vs neurons for consciousness / computation 01:24:08 Can quantum computers be consciousness? 01:28:55 Is periodicity required or is aperiodicity a prius? 01:29:41 IIT vs Global Neuronal vs Orch OR 01:33:57 Falsifying Hameroff's and Penrose's theory (Orch OR) 01:37:00 Koch's thought experiment on the ridiculousness of Schrödinger's cat being alive and dead 01:38:01 How do Platonic Forms come into this? 01:40:12 What Curt likes most about Orch OR 01:42:52 Experiencing "nothing" 01:43:55 Comparing Wolfram's theory 01:45:00 How does Penrose's theory solve the Hard problem of consciousness 01:47:07 Does there exist free will 01:48:15 Strong vs Weak anthropic principle and and an explanation for the ratios of nature
