Over the past year, the debate over how to address racism and systemic inequality has been at the forefront of many people’s minds. Theologian Jonathan Tran argues that the concept of race emerged as a “fig leaf” to cover the naked evils of slavery and racism, rather than as something essential to our identity as human beings. Because of this, seeing race as core to identity risks perpetuating injustice. How can we find ways to talk about identity and difference that don’t assume race is essential to who people are?

Jonathan joins Ryan to discuss this and a broad array of themes relating to race, identity, and their relationship to power, all connecting back to the stories we tell ourselves about who we are, how those stories come to be, and the ultimate story of redemption.