Is your marketing stuck in “competent” mode?

In a world where AI can generate endless content, being good isn’t good enough anymore.

In this episode, Tim Soulo sits down with best-selling author and marketing futurist Mark Schaefer to unpack why most marketing feels flat — and how to fix it. Drawing from his book Audacious, Mark makes the case for out-humaning the machines: creating content that’s emotional, unexpected, and deeply memorable.

You’ll learn:

Why the real threat to your brand isn’t AI — it’s being boring
How concepts like the handicap principle and pratfall effect make content feel more real
What a $1,500 pig can teach you about word-of-mouth marketing
Why Liquid Death isn’t selling water — they’re selling marketing
How to measure the ROI of audacity in a spreadsheet-driven world

If your brand is playing it safe, this conversation will push you to think bigger, bolder, and more human.

Chapters:

(00:00) Intro

(03:06) The Concept of Audacious Marketing

(08:52) How to Out-Human the Machines

(11:39) Join Ahrefs Evolve

(12:18) Using AI in Marketing

(21:12) How a $1500 Pig Became a Marketing Sensation

(30:47) Breaking Bad Rules for Good Reasons

(37:12) Creating Awe to Break the Pandemic of Dull

(48:31) Using Controversy and Stunts to Create Awareness

(55:28) How Liquid Death Disrupted a Boring Industry Through Marketing

(01:05:15) Buying a Product vs Buying a Brand

(01:13:27) Measuring the Impact of Audacious Marketing

(01:21:01) Outro

Where to find Mark:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisclickup/

Website: https://clickup.com/

Where to find Tim:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/

X: https://twitter.com/timsoulo

Website: https://www.timsoulo.com/

Referenced in this episode:

👤 People

Michael Krivica — https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelkrivica/

Dacher Keltner — https://www.linkedin.com/in/dacherkeltner/

Peter Drucker — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Drucker

Philip Kotler — https://www.linkedin.com/in/philipkotler/

Patrick Campbell — https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickccampbell/

Jonah Berger — https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonahberger/

Bill Gates — https://www.linkedin.com/in/billgates/

Mike Cessario (Liquid Death Founder) — https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikecessario/

Stix Nielsen (ex-Liquid Death CMO) — https://www.linkedin.com/in/stixnielsen/

🏢 Companies & Brands

Ahrefs — https://ahrefs.com/

Coca-Cola — https://www.coca-colacompany.com/

Netflix — https://www.netflix.com/

Liquid Death — https://liquiddeath.com/

Pepsi — https://www.pepsico.com/

Powerade — https://www.powerade.com/

Gatorade — https://www.gatorade.com/

Elf Cosmetics — https://www.elfcosmetics.com/

Roblox — https://www.roblox.com/

monday.com — https://monday.com/

ClickUp — https://clickup.com/

Asana — https://asana.com/

BMW — https://www.bmw.com/

Audi — https://www.audi.com/

Mercedes — https://www.mercedes-benz.com/

ProfitWell — https://www.profitwell.com/

Mischief Agency — https://www.mischiefusa.com/

Taboo — https://www.taboo.com.au/

📚 Books

Audacious by Mark Schaefer — https://www.amazon.com/Audacious-Marketing-Humans-Machines-Dominate/dp/1119904791

Contagious: Why Things Catch On by Jonah Berger — https://www.amazon.com/Contagious-Things-Catch-Jonah-Berger/dp/1451686579

Awe: The New Science of Everyday Wonder and How It Can Transform Your Life by Dacher Keltner — https://www.amazon.com/Awe-Science-Everyday-Wonder-Transform/dp/1982172820

📚 Concepts & Frameworks

Handicap Principle — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handicap_principle

Pratfall Effect — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratfall_effect

Social Objects — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_object

Collective Effervescence — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_effervescence

Four P’s of Marketing — https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/four-ps-of-marketing.asp

🎬 Events

South by Southwest (SXSW) — https://www.sxsw.com/

Ahrefs Evolve Conference — https://ahrefs.com/evolve

When You Know Better, You Do Better (with Jameela Jamil)