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Top Chef Wisconsin (aka Top Chef Season 21) may be over, but the Top Chef Frotcast Post-Show isn’t. This week we welcome Top Chef season 13 finalist and season 20 fan favorite Amar Santana, chef/owner of Broadway and Vaca, both in Orange County, California. Amar is great interview, and actually seems to enjoy talking to us for whatever reason. Which I hope won’t get him into any professional trouble. Years ago I tasted Jamón Iberico for the first time thanks to Amar, which is one of those things you never forget.

We get all the Top Chef inside info from Amar, including what his casting process was like, how much editors manipulate the show, and whether Top Chef winners still dream of opening new restaurants. He takes us back to when he first heard about the show, working alongside Ilan Hall (who went onto win Top Chef season 2) as line cooks for Charlie Palmer, and why he decided to be on it. He talks about the moment Top Chef stopped feeling like a reality show and started feeling like a legit cooking competition (it involved the Voltaggio Brothers), as well as the auditioning process, the psych evaluation, and more.

Finally, we made Amar go back and watch the first episode of the first season of Top Chef, and we discuss all the things that make it kind of hilarious to watch now, from Katie Lee being the host instead of Padma, to Tom Colicchio’s soul patch, to that crazy Irish guy who got kicked off for putting his finger in Hubert Keller’s sauce (Ken Lee). Uh, that’s DJ Hubert Keller to you.

As always, thank you to our sponsor, Blackwood Distilling Co. (Yes, the show has a sponsor, that’s why it’s free on all platforms).

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