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Venus Michael of www.profitfirstforphotographers.com and www.one21accountability.com appeared on my radar via good friend of the podcast, John Glaser, who messaged me to say this…

You need to have Venus Michael on the podcast. She is my book keeper and she is a profit first professional and just published the Profit First for Photographers book.

I started doing profit first this year and it has completely changed my business!!!

I am no longer concentrating on the top line of my business but on the bottom line, and with her help and the methodology of profit first has transformed the profitability of my business.

The funny thing is I had a zoom call scheduled with Venus 2 years ago, after I read the original profit first book by Mike Michalowicz, and my accountant at the time talked me out of meeting with her because she said Profit First was a bad idea, but she had no idea what it really meant.

I REALLY wish I would have done that zoom 2 years ago. My business would be in such a different place right now!!!

I can't speak highly enough of Profit First and the fact that there is a version of the book written specifically for photographers is AWESOME!!!

Following that message and the release of her book… Profit First for Photographers — The definitive guide for photographers ready to escape the cycle of entrepreneurial poverty and achieve financial freedom, I had to get Venus for an interview.

In this episode, learn the concept behind profit first, how it applies to you and your photography business and how it will change your approach to money and profits and haw to apply it to your life.

Here's some more of what we covered in the interview:

Venus wrote “Profit First for Photographers” to guide her clients out of entrepreneurial struggle and towards financial independence using the Profit First method.
It's time to shift your mindset from treating your business as a side hustle to embracing it as a genuine, thriving enterprise.
Venus Michael simplifies the Profit First framework for managing business finances effectively.
Set aside funds for business essentials like taxes, gear, and ongoing education.
Keep personal and business finances separate by creating dedicated accounts for specific expenses such as taxes, training, and equipment purchases.
Venus offers strategies to manage such situations if your designated account falls short of a necessary purchase.
Mastering business finances also involves finding new revenue streams and adapting to financial challenges by analysing percentages and adjusting your budget.
Maintaining the correct percentages within your operating budget is key to sustainable growth.
Explore alternative revenue avenues, like hosting events or selling educational resources, to boost your income.
Venus highlights the importance of multiple income streams to minimise financial risk.
Plan by saving for specific expenses like holidays or new lenses instead of relying on credit.
For creative entrepreneurs, managing finances includes regular software audits and setting clear financial goals.
Understanding your client's goals and desires is essential when helping them save money.
Venus provides scenarios for guiding clients to save for self-care and relaxation, such as setting aside funds for shopping as a treat.
Audit your software expenses regularly to avoid overspending, and use debit or credit cards for easier tracking and cancellation of unwanted subscriptions.
Quickly identify and cancel unused software by reviewing statements from providers.
The Profit First system advises small business owners to set aside a percentage of revenue for profit before covering personal or business expenses.
For sole traders, keeping personal and business expenses separate is vital.
Venus explains profit distribution and investment strategies tailored for small business owners.
She offers a straightforward approach to calculating owner's pay based on your revenue.
Emphasising the fun in profit distribution, Venus encourages using a portion of profits for personal enjoyment.
Venus also advises on smart investing and saving, helping you use profits to achieve personal goals.
Setting up separate bank accounts and allocating a percentage of income to them makes saving for specific goals easier.
Clients can see their savings grow, track progress, and stay motivated to reach their financial targets more quickly.
While creating separate bank accounts for different goals is beneficial, Venus notes that some countries may limit the number of accounts you can open.
Venus explores budgeting apps and envelope systems specifically for photographers.
She advises tracking expenses and revenue early on to build strong financial habits and achieve your goals.
Venus illustrates how even small profit distributions can significantly boost your motivation.

The idea of the book is literally to stop thinking of your business as a side hustle and treat it like an actual business, and to pay yourself. It is very important you pay yourself. – Venus Michael

Venus Michael Photography Podcast

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It's better if you start this process when you're smaller, because you build a habit and you think about your goals, then once you start actually making six figures, you're like, ‘Oh, you know, I messed up.’ Or ‘I wish I would have known this earlier.’ ‘I wish I would have taken the call two years ago.’ – Venus Michael

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In addition to everything above, you'll get access to instructions on forming or joining a MasterMind Group with other premium members. These groups are super motivating, make you accountable, and build friendships with other pro photographers with motives similar to yours – to build a more successful photography business.

When you are dealing with smaller revenues, you have to be a more precise in your expenses, and you don't have a lot that you can take home, but you may find that once you implement this system, you're taking home more than you did before, because you actually have a system that now you are watching your expenses, and you're paying attention to what's going on, instead of, you know, when your revenue is that low of 50, or it's a side hustle, you kind of get stuck in this trap of going back and forth, and you just keep reinvesting. – Venus Michael

Venus Michael Photography Podcast

What is your big takeaway?

Following this interview, I’d love to know if you're taking anything from what Venus shared. Is there something you heard that excited or motivated you to the point where you thought, yeah, I'm going to do that! If so, leave your thoughts in the comments below; let me know your takeaways and what you plan to implement in your business based on what you heard in today's episode.

If you're ever sitting there thinking about your business and ‘Would I?’ Should I?’ or ‘Can I afford something?’ That needs to be a trigger of, ‘Do you need an account for that?’ You know, like, ‘Could I get my business to pay for my $10,000 bike?’ ‘Could I get my business to pay for the down payment of this house I want?’ Those were all triggers for ‘Let's get an account for that.’ – Venus Michael

If you have any questions I missed, a specific question you’d like to ask Venus, or a way to thank you for coming on the show, feel free to add them in the comments area below.

Venus Michael Photography Podcast

iTunes Reviews and Shout-outs

I check for any new iTunes or Google reviews each week, and it's always a buzz to receive these… for several reasons.

Firstly, it's confirmation that I'm on the right track with the interviews and that they are helping you improve your photography business. That's awesome!

Secondly, iTunes and Google are the most significant podcast search engines, and your reviews and ratings help other photographers find PhotoBizX. More listeners mean more interviews and, ultimately, a better show.

Once a quarter, you actually take a profit distribution, different from your owner's pay, because you are the business owner, you take a profit distribution. And how you figure that out is you take 50% half of whatever the balance is. If you have accumulated $1,000 in your profit account and it's distribution day, you actually go and take 500 out. You stick it in your pocket, you do something fun with it. Do not reinvest it into the business…Do not do that. Go do something fun. – Venus Michael

If you have left a review in the past, thank you! If you haven't and you'd like to, head to https://photobizx.com/itunes or https://photobizx.com/google. You can leave some honest feedback and a rating, which will help both me and the show. I'll be sure to thank you on the show and add a link to your website or blog if you let me know the URL of your website and your name.

Alternatively, if you've left a review for PhotoBizX and are looking for more backlinks to help your SEO, leave a review for the new Photography Xperiment Podcast. Email me your keywords or phrases and where you'd like me to link them.

You make a conscious decision to take your profit first. – Venus Michael

Another great way to get a backlink to your site is to send a video testimonial. It doesn't need to be fancy, and your phone will be perfect. Click record and tell me how PhotoBizX has impacted you and your photography business.

Venus Michael Photography Podcast

Thank you!

Thanks again for listening and for Venus' candid thoughts, ideas, and experience on how to apply the profit-first methodology and concepts to real and working photographers, no matter the size of their business.

Because there is so much AI coming at you and so much software coming at you, and the newest, greatest, latest CRM and all this stuff, you want to audit your software list at least once a quarter and ask yourself, ‘Am I using it, and do I get the value for it?’ So if they're charging you $97 and you're only using it 10% of the time, then maybe you're not getting the value for that, right? And if you're like, nope, not really getting the value, then you need to look for alternatives or just flat out cancel it. – Venus Michael

That’s it for me this week; I hope everything is going well for you in life and business!

Thanks, and speak soon
Andrew

Episode Transcript

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579: Venus Michael – How to apply profit first to your photography business

Andrew Hellmich: Today's guest first appeared on my radar via good friend of the podcast, John Glaser, who messaged me to say, this, "You need to have Venus Michael on the podcast. She's my bookkeeper, and she is a profit first professional, and just published the Profit First for photographers book." Now, I started doing Profit First this year, and it has completely changed my business. I'm no longer concentrating on the top line of my business, but on the bottom line. And with her help and the mythology of Profit First, it has transformed the profitability of my business. Now, the funny thing is, John says "I had a zoom call scheduled with Venus two years ago after I read the original Profit First Book by Mike Michalowicz. And my accountant at the time, talked me out of the meeting with her because she said Profit First was a bad idea, but she had no idea what it really meant." John went on to say, "I really wish I would have done that Zoom two years ago. My business would be in such a different place right now, I can't speak highly enough of Profit First, and the fact that there is a version of the book written specifically for photographers is awesome." So following that message and the release of her book, 'Profit First for Photographers, The definitive guide for photographers ready to escape the cycle of entrepreneurial poverty and achieve financial freedom'. I am rapt to have author and bookkeeper, Venus Michael, with us now. Venus, welcome.

Venus Michael: Thank you.

Andrew Hellmich: So you got to tell me the book is it just out as it been in the making for the last 10 years. Tell me about the book.

Venus Michael: So it's been in the making for about five years, when I started getting the idea that I was going to do it, and then I go back and forth and back and forth with it. And then about, it took me about two years once I finally committed and said, "Okay, I'm going to do this." It took me about two years to get it done and it launched. It has a birthday of July 9. That is its birthday, so it's been out just a few weeks.

Andrew Hellmich: So why did you write the book? And why for photographers?

Venus Michael: So in 2016 when I joined the Profit First community and became a Certified Profit First Professional, I loved the program then and I started working with photographers, and they were always telling me, "You need to write a book. You need to write a book", because I was giving them golden nuggets of knowledge of this is how we take this system that Mike Michalowicz did, and this is how we tweak it for your industry. But I could only talk to so many people, and they're like, "You need to write a book so everybody can have this." And after listening to that for a while, there's quite a few different things that happen when you decide to write a derivative book of a book that already is copyrighted, and the main thing is you have to go back to that author and ask for permission. And so I think I went to him four or five times before I finally said, "Okay, I'm ready." Like, I'd go and I'd say, "I want to talk about this", and then it wouldn't happen and be like, "Okay, well, maybe later." And finally I said, "Okay, I'm ready." And that's when things started moving.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. So how were photographers finding you in the first place? Were they going to say, you know, the Profit First website that Mike owned, and then you're listed there as a service provider?

Venus Michael: So yes, there is a website you can go to find Profit First Professionals. What happens in the background is your information gets routed to multiple Profit First Professionals, depending on who fits by the information that you put in there. So if you were a photographer and you went to that website, you may be matched with me because I put in there that I work with them, or you may be matched with another very amazing Profit First Professional. But the way people were finding me specifically is through my very first photography client. She found me through BNI networking here locally, and she has since then become an influencer and a mentor to a lot of photographers, and she kept dropping my name, and then so other people would find me, and then they'd go drop my name. And so it was very organic how I just woke up one day and realized that out of my roster of everybody I was working with, you know, 80, 85% of them were a photographer, or something that circled that industry. So the hair and the makeup, the video, the editing, all of that stuff that circled that industry, and that's when it kind of hit me like a ton of bricks. I need to niche to this, because that's who I'm attracting.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice, nice. So when you decide to create the book, write the book, what's in it for Mike? Like, why would he say 'yes' to having someone write a derivative of the book that already exists?

Venus Michael: Well, I don't actually know this to be true, but I believe it to be true is that whenever somebody buys a derivative, if they haven't bought his book yet, they're going to buy it, you know. So, like, if you go onto Amazon and you try to buy a derivative book, and it'll tell you commonly sold together. I see Mike's book in there too. So it does up his sales. There also is a contract, and he does receive a payment for it. So there's a monetary thing for that as well. And then it really drives the brand forward. What I tell people a lot is that, because they'll ask me, why do I need your book if I've read Mike's book? Well, Mike's book is great, but when he was writing the book, he was talking to the general public. He wasn't talking to a specific industry with all the little quirks that happen in that industry. So these derivative books have started popping up. I think there's about 20 of them now, or maybe 21 that are very industry specific. And get into, okay, "Mike's book is the framework. It's the foundation. My book is going to build the house", you know, so it's going to be very personalized to this is what photographers struggle with. This is how we tweak the percentages. This is, you know, the examples are ones that you can really relate to, instead of an example of maybe a contractor or an office person, you're getting examples of other people who are doing creative things too. And maybe you don't fit that example exactly, but in your mind, it's a lot easier to say, "Okay, this person went through and had these three different lenses to create this picture. And I don't have those three, but I have these three over here that work", right? And so it's the same type of thought process, and that's why derivative books are actually very, very valuable for whatever industry you're in.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. So when you're writing the book, are there guidelines from Michael or his team saying how much you can actually use or copy for one of a better word you know to your book?

Venus Michael: Yes, there is a copyright percentage. You are allowed only a certain percentage that you can actually copy, everything else has to be your own words. Now that's not pertaining to the framework, you know. In Mike's book, he teaches the framework. In my book, I teach the framework. Specifically in my book, there was only, it's a one pager, and it was explaining the concept of what you look at first you remember, you know. And I really liked the way that Mike wrote it, and I didn't have a story or an analogy to change that particular thing. So that's the only thing I took as my you know, 'I'm going to take it from the original book', but there is a very small percentage that you can literally just copy paste. Rest of it has to be your own content.

Andrew Hellmich: Got it. Got it. Now, we haven't said but you're based in the US, in Texas, the concepts that you teach, that you cover in the book, that you deal with your clients. Are they applicable to photographers from around the world or to the US specifically?

Venus Michael: No, they're applicable to photographers around the world. Because it doesn't matter if you have a US dollar or not a US dollar, you have money somewhere, right? The only hiccup that I have found is that there are countries that don't allow or make it very difficult to have multiple bank accounts. So then we have other tips and tricks that we use and excel sheets and different things to do so that you can have, you know, you may not be able to have multiple bank accounts because of restrictions where you live, but we have other ways of making those buckets, per se, and I'm going to have to, this is something I wasn't even aware of until my book came out, and I got an email from a reader, and she's like, "Well, how do I do this?" And I was like, "Oh", so I started researching it, and so I am going to have to release something like an update or something, as soon as I figure out what are the best tips and tricks, and then I also need to research and figure out what countries are like this, because that hit me new. That's something I didn't know before writing the book. And I wish I did, because I would have included it in there.

Andrew Hellmich: Got it. Got it. So like, if I read the book, and I want to ask you about the whole concept, we're going to go deeper into that. But if I read the book, is the idea then for me to tell my bookkeeper, my accountant, how I want to run my business, or is it to replace them? Like, what's the idea of the book?

Venus Michael: So the idea of the book is to literally to stop thinking of your business as a side hustle and treat it like an actual business. And to pay yourself. It's very important you pay yourself. Now when it comes to the bookkeeper part, you do want to give a copy to your bookkeeper and say, "Hey, we're going to implement this new system. And this is how I'm going to look at my money." It doesn't change. It really doesn't change anything on the bookkeeping side, a cost is still a cost. It doesn't actually mean that the books get bigger. It just means you have more buckets, and so you're dealing with a couple transfers, but that's very easy on the bookkeeping side to deal with. If your bookkeeper that you have is pushing back and saying, "No, I don't want to do this", then you need to find a new bookkeeper, as you've learned from reading your intro.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, like John did, and just so I've got the terms correct. As far as you're concerned, in the States, do you have bookkeepers and accountants, or are they one in the same thing?

Venus Michael: No, they are not one in the same thing. So we have bookkeepers. The main function of a bookkeeper is to actually do the day to day stuff and have a set of books. Then an accountant or a CPA, the main function for them is to actually talk to you about your tax liability and submit your IRS tax returns. And then you have people who will do both. I do not do both, and it's not because I don't know how or cannot. It's because I don't like doing taxes, but everything else I do but there are two separate functions for those here in the US,

Andrew Hellmich: Right. And that's the same here in Australia. So we would hire a bookkeeper, a lot of the times you might even have, like in my case, I have my spouse, my wife, she does the bookkeeping, and then she presents the books to our accountant to submit to, you know, for tax purposes at the end of the year. So that sounds very similar to Australia. I'm pretty sure it's similar in the UK as well. So can you give us a broad outline of what 'Profit First' is, for anyone who hasn't heard of it or hasn't read the original book by Mike.

Venus Michael: Yeah. So Profit First is literally, it's a system, it's a framework, and you have to change your habits and your outlook on money. And so if you kind of think about a lot of people will relate it to the envelope system. So they'll kind of say, like, "Okay, it's the envelope system, but it's for business." But what it really is it's when you are calm and you are collected and you are thinking about your money, not from an emotional state, you come up with, there's a whole way to do it, but you get a certain percentage of all of your revenue needs to go for this specific purpose, whether it be, it needs to pay the tax bill, it needs to pay you, it needs to buy your supplies. It needs to, you know, buy your equipment or pay for your travel. The purpose doesn't really matter. It's a certain percentage for that particular purpose. Then for every time you get paid, you move that percentage over for that purpose. That's half of it. The other half of it is that when it comes time to actually pay the money, when it comes time to make the purchase, or even make the decision, are you going to travel? Are you going to go to that convention? Are you going to buy that piece of equipment? Whatever is going to happen? You are going back and looking at that bank account, or that bucket or that envelope, whatever you want to call it, that is for that purpose, you know. So for instance, Mike talks about having five buckets, our bank accounts. And it's you have a bank account for your income. That's where all your deposits collect. And then, you know, twice a month, you move it into these other four, you have profit, owners pay, tax, and operating. In my book, we add to that five, we have three other accounts that we say you need to add to. So sales tax, if you're in a place where you have to pay sales tax, and sales tax is different than the regular tax. You know, if you're in a place, then you need an account for that, because that's not your money. The other one is continuing education or business growth. That account I found to be very helpful for masterminds, conventions, education, money that you're spending to know more about your business, to grow your business, not marketing, but actually grow your business. It's the whole on the business in the business type mentality, and then the other one is equipment, because that stuff can hurt when you have to pay for it, and you don't pay for it often, but when you do, it really, really hurts and you need it. You need your cameras, your lenses, your lights, your props, you know, you need your computer, your hard drives, and the electronic stuff that you actually need to do your job that can cost a pretty penny. We make an account for that. And even if we're just putting 1% of all the money you make, just 1% just one you won't really feel it when you move it over, but it will start accumulating. And then when you have to go, you know, drop a large amount of money on a new lens because it broke, or you need to replace your camera or your hard drive crashed. You know you're already in panic because you have to do, you need that equipment, and if you have the money set aside for it, it doesn't hurt and it doesn't hit your bottom line, and you're not borrow stealing money that was actually supposed to go to keeping the lights on or paying yourself or doing your tax bill, you know, that type of stuff.

Andrew Hellmich: But what if? What if there's not enough money in that bucket when you need that new lens or that new camera?

Venus Michael: That's great, and I address that in the book too. So the thing is like, let's say I'll just use US dollars. Let's say you have to buy a piece of equipment. It's going to cost you $2,500, right? And in your bucket you have $1,000, so you take that $1,000 and then you're like, "Okay, well, I really need this." And you go through a whole exercise of, "Do I need this right now? Do I need this one, or can I get a lower priced one?" Once you go through that exercise and you're set, "Yes, I need to spend this $2,500, I only have 1000 over there." Now you only have to take the punch to your gut of $1,500 versus 2500. Ideally, you don't want to ever be in that situation. But that is a very true situation that happens all the time. And then you can be like, "Okay, I don't have to come up with 2500 now, I have to come up with 1500 where am I going to pull that from, and how am I going to adjust and kind of realign my expenses for a month or two so that I can make up for the fact that I have to come up with this." And then you make your purchase, and you start your thing over again, and hopefully build up your buffers to where that doesn't happen again, you know, but it can happen, and it's very common, but you want to lower that punch to the gut when you have to, you know, when you're in panic mode, because you need this piece of equipment to do this job that's going to get you money, right? Like you kind of getting paid.

Andrew Hellmich: Well, let's stay with that example, because so let's say I do need this piece of equipment. I'm going to be in the hole for 1500 because there's only 1000 in the account for the equipment. Where do I take it from? Like, do I take it from my tax bucket? Do I take it from my operating cost bucket? Or is there a rule of thumb I should it follow?

Venus Michael: You should take it from your operating, you should never take anything from your tax because you don't want to have to worry about that later. But if it's not in your operating you do have to get a little creative, and that may also be triggering for you to say, "Are my percentages appropriate?" You know, do I have the right percentages? And that's kind of why you want to sign up and really get with a Profit First Professional, because we can explain that stuff on a fly. But if you, if you don't have it in your operating then you do have to say, "Okay, well, maybe it needs to come from my business growth, and I'm not going to go to that convention until I rebuild that buffer." We call those hiccups. But what they really are is you're borrow stealing from yourself, and you don't want to have to do that. But in reality and in real life, it does happen. So when it does happen, do not throw away the system. Do not say "It didn't work for me", or that you failed. Just say, "Okay, this is a hiccup. This is a speed bump. I fell down. Let me stand up, brush off my knees, and keep going", you know, and then you just get right back on the bandwagon. Be like, "Okay, these are the percentages, and this is how I'm going to move them.", you know.

Andrew Hellmich: Venus, if you were my bookkeeper, and I'm speaking hypothetically here, let's say I'm, you know, I'm in the hole here. I need this $1,500 to get this new lens, because the other one's been damaged. Like, will you say to me, "Andrew, you just need to book another shoot or two. You need to up your price." Like, do you give me some other like, alternatives, instead of borrow, stealing from myself?

Venus Michael: Yes, we look at other opportunities to where you can bring in revenue, you know. But like, let's go through this scenario. So we sit down and I tell you, okay, one of the things I will tell you is, "Can you book another gig, or can you do a special promotion that you won't require that lens, that you can get an influx of cash?" And you say, "Yes, I can", or "No, I can't". Most of the time it's going to be 'no, I can't', because even those small flash cells take time to build right? So then I will say, "Okay, well, you know, can you get revenue anywhere else? And when we hit that wall of like, "No, I need this $1,500 in a week because I have to buy this lens, and there's no way to get revenue", then we start looking, "Okay, where do we have buffers that we can borrow from?" And then get really strict to pay back, right? So you may have to pull back and borrow from either your owner's pay account, you know, but you know, if you do that, then that's not going to put money in your pocket, so it may not pay your mortgage or buy your groceries. So you're going to be highly motivated to, once you get this lens, you know, put it in the funnel to also do extra stuff to bring in more revenue. That's also telling you that maybe your business isn't bringing in enough revenue for your percentages. So we'll look at your percentages and say, "Is this really appropriate?" And we'll kind of tie back on some things that we need to do. Another thing that I do quite a bit with a lot of my clients is we find other ways to pull in revenue. We don't want to just be "Okay, well, I am going to pull in revenue from taking photos or editing", or stuff like that. I will talk with my clients, and I'll find out that they have certain passion projects, and I'll pull on those, and I'll be like, "Okay, here's your passion project that you like to do, and you do it for fun or creative release. How can we make revenue of that?" And so it can be selling your education, because very knowledgeable, you have a lot of stuff. How can we monetize that? It can be a totally different line of photography and using that artistry for a total different client base that you're just like you never thought about doing this client base because nobody else was doing it, or it can be, you know, having nothing to do with photography and having everything to do with being a people connector and hosting, you know, events in your studio that are networking and growth and that go for your purpose. We always want multiple streams of revenue, not just one, so that if one goes down or one is hurting a little bit, we have more buffers that we can pull from.

Andrew Hellmich: Got it okay? So far, we've been talking about, you know, looking for this extra money to fund this lens purchase. Does the conversation change if it's, I'm talking about a holiday, you know, or a trip away with the family. Does it change? I mean, you can see you're laughing already.

Venus Michael: No, I'm grinning because I literally have somebody that we did this in January. One of my clients told me that he wanted to take the whole month of December off. That was his goal for him and his family. He didn't want to work, but you still have to keep the lights on. You still have to pay for the software, like you still have expenses that happen. So we started then, I sent him right back to the bank, which I have a great banking connection for your listeners, that they would like, but I sent it right back to the bank, and I said, "Go open an account and call it December." And he did, and we just dripped 1%, just 1% into that, and we took half of it out of one, and half of it out of another, and put it in there. And he's got his money already sitting there to cover his expenses for December and half of January, because when he comes back, he's gotta start the funnel wheel again. You know, it's like, he's not going to come back January 2, and, "Oh, I've got work", right? Because he hasn't been there all December putting things in the funnel. So when it comes to holidays, when it comes to big purchases, I've got another client that really wants to take his family to Europe. I'm like, "Okay, well, let's make a Europe account for that." I've got another one. She's going to, I think, Iceland, you know. So we've got these big trips that they take more planning and more money, and so we will rework the percentages and literally start setting money aside for that, and try to leave that alone and let it grow so that when it comes time to buy the ticket or purchase it, or just, you know, clock out and be like, "Okay, I'm gone for a month, but I still need all my ACH payments to go out to pay for all these little things." You've got it covered, and you're not worried because you're not bringing in revenue at the time that you're doing XYZ.

Andrew Hellmich: What I'm hearing over and over from you, it sounds very old fashioned. I'm hearing saving for the things that you need rather than borrowing so you can do them right now.

Venus Michael: Yes, it's planning. You know, you have to kind of plan a little bit, right?

Andrew Hellmich: But you're talking about saving up to go on the holiday in December. Start saving in January, you know, saving now for the lens that you might need next year, rather than, you know, waiting for, you know, December to come around and just borrowing the money, putting it on your credit card and then paying it back later.

Venus Michael: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: Is that right? Like you're talking about saving.

Venus Michael: That's exactly what it is. Yes, that's exactly what it is.

Andrew Hellmich: So with, again, I don't want to age myself too much here. But so with the younger generation, like everyone wants to have every, I mean, I'm the same. We all want to have what we want to have right now, right? We don't want to save. Do you have to fight with your clients, you know, for one over again, of a better term to get them to save or and wait for what they want?

Venus Michael: Necessarily. Um, with my clients, we have conversations around goals quite a bit, and so I kind of know what's coming, but there is that instant gratification. There is an addiction to shopping, stuff like that, that you really have to say, "Okay, this is who you are. So we are going to plan for that." For instance, I have another client, and that is her outlet. That is how she unwinds and decompresses, she shops. And so we have an account that's called, you know, 'Amazon money', so she can buy weird things on Amazon. And I've made sure that I got her percentages in line so she has a healthy buffer in there. It's not 1000s and 1000s of dollars, but it will give her enough money that when she is scrolling, she's like, "Okay, how much can I spend today?" She looks at her account, she's like, "Okay, I've got $100 I can spend today." And so she's a little more selective on her shopping, but she still gets her dopamine hit of shopping for whatever the newest, greatest thing is that TikTok to advertising that she just bought on Amazon, right? So when it comes to saving, we don't necessarily, especially with the younger, younger generation, we don't call it saving. We call it 'goals', like, "What is your goal, and where do you want to be?" And then we may get a little aggressive, like, "If you come to me in July and tell me you want to take December off, we're going to be a little bit more aggressive than dripping 1%", right We're going to be like, "Okay, where can we pull this? And then on the on the flip side of that, if you pull a percentage from your operating then you have to look at your operating account, your money going out, and make sure that you are not overspending there. And so we will look at the expenses and kind of like, trim it down. And the most common one that I trim down when I first start working with people is software, you know, where I'll look at all their software and I'll say, "Okay, well, this is $5 and this is $5 and this", you know, now tell him, "Well, 20 of these $5 makes $100 it starts adding up. Do you use this?" And I promise you, in every conversation I have heard it at least once. "No, I don't use that right now, but I might someday." I'm like, "Okay, well then when someday comes, you can get it again, but for right now, we're going to cancel it", you know. So you always as as any entrepreneur, but especially photographers, because there is so much AI coming at you and so much software coming at you, and the newest, greatest, latest CRM and all this stuff, you want to audit your software list at least once a quarter and ask yourself, "Am I using it, and do I get the value for it?" So if they're charging you $97 and you're only using it 10% of the time, then maybe you're not getting the value for that, right? And if you're like, "Nope, not really getting the value", then you need to look for alternatives or just flat out cancel it. But you should be doing that. And one of the tools that makes that I'm sorry I'm going in five different directions here, but one of the tools that makes that very, very easy to do is to have a debit or credit card that is just software, you know. So all of your auto hits that hit you, you know, for your five, your 10, your 20, your $97, all of your software stuff have that on one debit card or one credit card, so you can easily pull a statement. You're not waiting for the books to get done, you're not looking in an Excel sheet. You're not going through a bunch of different information. You want to pull that one statement and see, "Okay, these are the seven software that I paid for. Here's how much I paid. Am I getting my value?" Yes, no, cancel, keep. You can make those decisions really fast. If you are waiting for the books and trying to dive into a bunch of different reports that are inside of your accounting software, number one, you're not going to do it because it takes too much time. And then a lot of creative entrepreneurs, when they look at that stuff, it literally starts looking Greek to them. And they'll come to me and they'll be like, "Well, I of feel stupid because I don't understand how to read this." And I'm like, "You're not stupid. You're working with the other side of your brain, which makes you brilliant for what you do. You know, your money maker is the other side of the brain." So we try to find all of these little tips and tricks and tools that will help get that information to you quicker in a way that you understand. So if you literally just print out a statement once a month, and all that's on there is your software and there's no other noise on there, then you can very quickly do your software audit and stop where you know five or $10 may be leaking out every month. You want to really condense those expenses down and having a set percentage that you put in your operating account and saying, "This is the money that is dedicated to operating my business", will help keep you there, because you've got a limited resource, you know, you're now you're pulling in the power of Parkinson's Law and having a limited resource to get a job done, you know.

Andrew Hellmich: So you didn't mention things like, you know, Netflix, Stand, Discovery, Audible, would they all be going into or coming out of the profit bucket? Not because it's nothing to do with business, it's more like it's for entertainment?

Venus Michael: Yes. So that would be coming out of the owner's pay bucket. So the owners pay, yeah, that that would be anything that would be a personal expense, not a business expense. Audible, that's a little gray, because it can be a business expense if you're listening to business books. So Audible, I do see that on a lot of books, on a lot of business books. I do keep it on the business books, because it literally can. Netflix on the other side, not so much.

Andrew Hellmich: Got it. Got it. Okay, so let me take you back to the I guess, the original premise of the interview and the framework that you started with, Profit First. So that's the first bucket, and this is the one I imagine that has the biggest change, the biggest effect on the people that you know buy into this system. What is it? Does it mean that we put aside how much profit we want first?

Venus Michael: Yes, literally, literally, you make a conscious decision to take your Profit First, right?

Andrew Hellmich: So this isn't pay. This is profit. These are two separate things.

Venus Michael: These two things, yes, so you have your owner's pay bucket that pays your salary, that pays you because you work for the business. If you work for corporate America or corporate anywhere, and you didn't get paid, that wouldn't be acceptable. You don't want to accept it from a business you own. So that is your paycheck.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, let me just hold you here, because what if you're primarily talking to a sole trader? So, you know, I've worked for myself. It's my business. Do I still pay myself as a sole trader, or do I just live off the profits?

Venus Michael: No, you need to pay yourself.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, then, so with this system, is there a minimum income, a gross revenue that I have to be bringing in to make this work this system.

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Andrew Hellmich: I could talk about all this stuff all day. I've got one more question I want to put to you, specific to John Glaser. I know he's one of your clients, and you said clients are off-limits. But I think we can have a hypothetical question around John and his business, before that, where do we learn what? Where do we get the book? And can we hire you as our bookkeeper?

Venus Michael: Yes. So you get the book is on Amazon, Profit First for Photographers. If you go to the website, profitfirstforphotographers.com there's a link to that and resources that come with it. I have a workbook, I have an Excel sheet. I have a bunch of stuff happening over there. If you want to have a conversation with me, you can start at venusmichael.com. If you are looking specifically for bookkeeping, there is a link at the top of venusmichael.com that takes you to another website. Why I have three websites? I have no idea, because my marketing company made three websites. But my business is called One21 Account-Ability. It has its own website. And then venusmichael.com is where you can talk to me about the book. You can talk to me about speaking that I do, education, anything that I do that's not bookkeeping. But if you just start there you can you can find links to get you where else you want to go.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, I'll add links to all those in the show notes to accompany the audio.

Venus Michael: Thank you.

Andrew Hellmich: And just for the for the listener, is the bookkeeping specifically for US residents or business operators only, or does that work across the world as well?

Venus Michael: No, it works across the world, the requirement is you have to be on QuickBooks Online.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so someone's with, say, MYOB or Xero, that have to change over to QuickBooks Online?

Venus Michael: Yes.

Andrew Hellmich: Is that easy?

Venus Michael: Yes, for me, it's easy.

Andrew Hellmich: Right

Venus Michael: It's very daunting and upsetting, if you are the business owner trying to change it. But that doesn't mean don't go and seek out another Profit First Professional. If you are using Xero and you love Xero, then start with profitfirstprofessionals.com put your information in and they will pair you up with a US based one. And then there are a couple other countries that have, like, there's, there's a whole Profit First Professionals for Canada, there's a, you know, there's a couple other ones. I'm just not familiar with where they're at. But if you start at profitfirstprofessionals.com start the conversation there with those headquarters. And you're in a different country and need support, like they can direct you to. "Oh, well, here's who we have that is specific to that country."

Andrew Hellmich: Got it. Love it, all right. That's amazing, Venus. Last question for you. I know we're running short of time here, and this is a hypothetical, and I know that John is going to weigh in on this interview anyway, once it goes live, but hypothetically, what do you think John would say if I was to ask him, "How is this like, How's it changed your business? Like, going Profit First? Why has it made such a difference? How has it made such a difference? How has it affected your life? What do you think he would say to that?"

Venus Michael: Um, hopefully he would say that it made him look at his business through a different lens. That is literally what I tell people all the time. And what happened with John is he was very successful. He's a great photographer, very successful. He just needed to look at his business a little bit differently to maximize the growth that he is now talking about, and why he wishes he had done this earlier. So I would hope that that is what he would say.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so is someone in John's position. I would have imagined like, I like your answer, but I would have imagined he would say, "I've now got all this spare money to take the family on holidays, to do this, to do that." Yours sounded too busy to me.

Venus Michael: I'm sorry. Well, I'm pretty sure John would say that too, because he has, but it's not all about "I've got all this money." It's all about "I am literally seeing my business differently. It is running as a business. It is supporting itself. It is supporting me." And if you say, "Oh, I've got all this money now", then the next question is, how? Why? You know, "Well, I got all this money now because I'm using Profit First." Well, why did that work? "Because I see my business different now".

Andrew Hellmich: Right, got it. I do like that. I do like that, a lot. We'll wait for John's comments following this episode going live.

Venus Michael: I'm sure there will be.

Andrew Hellmich: Venus, you have been an amazing guest. It's been so much fun talking money and finance with you. And yeah, look, I had a bit of an idea how this worked, but you really cleared it up and opened my eyes to a whole new way of doing business. So massive thanks to you for coming on and sharing we have.

Venus Michael: Thank you so much for having me.

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