KOL456 | Haman Nature Hn 109: Philosophy, Rights, Libertarian and Legal Careers

Kinsella on Liberty Podcast: Episode 456. [Update: see various biographical pieces on my publications page, including Alan D. Bergman, Adopting Liberty: The Stephan Kinsella Story (2025).] This is my appearance on Adam Haman’s podcast and Youtube channel, Haman Nature (Haman Nature substack), episode HN 109, "Stephan Kinsella Expounds on Philosophy And The Life Well Lived" (recorded Feb. 6, 2025—just before the Tom Woods cruise). We discussed philosophy and rights; my legal and libertarian careers (see Adopting Liberty: The Stephan Kinsella Story), and so on. Grok transcript and shownotes below. Adam's Shownotes: Adam interviews patent attorney, philosopher, legal theorist and libertarian anarchist Stephan Kinsella about his life, his works, and what's next for the great man! 00:00 – Intro. 01:21 -- Does Stephan believe there is a level of technology required for "Ancapistan" to "work". 07:42 -- Adam has issues with the "is/ought" gap and asks Stephan for help on the matter. 25:42 -- The life and times of Stephan Kinsella. Great stuff! 50:55 -- Have questions about legal careers? Reach out to Stephan with questions! 52:02 -- Outro. Thank you for watching Haman Nature! https://youtu.be/ls82IXaxIW8?si=0RXbDIdp5FsiR3IW Shownotes (Grok):   body { font-family: Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 1.6; margin: 20px; max-width: 800px; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; } h1, h2 { color: #2c3e50; } .timestamp { font-weight: bold; color: #7f8c8d; display: block; margin-bottom: 5px; } p { margin-bottom: 15px; }   Haman Nature Episode 109: Revised Show Notes Aired: March 24, 2025 In this episode of Haman Nature, host Adam Haman interviews libertarian theorist and patent attorney Stephan Kinsella, marking his third or fourth appearance on the show. The discussion explores Kinsella’s views on anarcho-capitalism, libertarian legal theory, philosophy, and intellectual property (IP), intertwined with biographical insights into his life, career challenges, and intellectual evolution. The episode offers a blend of deep philosophical inquiry and personal reflection, highlighting Kinsella’s contributions to libertarian thought. Technology and Anarcho-Capitalism [00:00] The episode begins with a discussion on whether advanced technology is required for an anarcho-capitalist society (“Ancapistan”) to succeed. Kinsella clarifies a misinterpreted comment, stating he no longer sees liberty as dependent on mass economic literacy but on cultural absorption of libertarian values, as seen after the Soviet Union’s fall. He envisions technology reducing theft incentives in a post-scarcity world, where resources are easily replicable, making state coercion ineffective. Breakthroughs like AI or Bitcoin could accelerate this, though a free society remains possible without them, emphasizing productivity and voluntary institutions. The “Is/Ought” Gap and Objective Rights [07:45] Haman raises the “is/ought” gap, referencing Kinsella’s prior podcast on objective versus subjective rights. Kinsella argues norms must be universalizable and grounded in reality, rejecting arbitrary distinctions like race or strength. Drawing on Hoppe’s transcendental argument, he explains that peaceful discourse presupposes equality and peace, forming a foundation for libertarian norms like body ownership and homesteading. These objective rights minimize conflict and enable prosperity, rooted in human nature rather than divine or forceful edicts. Religion, Ethics, and Practical Norms [14:00] The talk extends to religion’s role in ethics, with Kinsella critiquing dismissals of natural rights while noting that ethical “oughts” often derive from some “is,” including God. He aligns with Peterson’s view of God as a hierarchy of values for human thriving through iterative processes, similar to libertarian principles fleshed out via common law precedents. As an atheist, Kinsella values religion for encoding practical morals but prefers it over statism, which perverts decency. He stresses that norms evolve pragmatically to foster peace, rejecting utilitarianism for principled consistency. Kinsella’s Personal Challenges and Early Influences [25:46] Kinsella shares his life story, reflecting on a tough year with prostate cancer recurrence, sepsis leading to a stroke and kidney issues, his brother’s death, and surgery recovery. Now 59 and recovered, he’s prioritizing family, health, and writing, pausing libertarian travels. Growing up in rural Louisiana, he attended Catholic schools and discovered libertarianism through Ayn Rand’s The Fountainhead in 10th grade, becoming an objectivist and atheist. Early bullying experiences amplified his hatred of injustice, aligning with Rand’s anti-force ethos, while comics and philosophy shaped his worldview. He pursued electrical engineering at LSU but found it limiting, leading to law school. Law School Education and Legal Theory Benefits [33:42] At Louisiana State University (LSU), a top civil law school due to Louisiana’s unique civil law system, Kinsella studied Roman and civil law alongside common law, providing a rare comparative framework. This education deepened his understanding of legal systems, which he now sees as serendipitously beneficial to his libertarian work. It enhanced his analyses of contract theory, property rights, and intellectual property, allowing him to draw on historical precedents like Roman law. Without this foundation, Kinsella believes his writing and theorizing would have been significantly less robust, as it fostered a systematic approach integrating legal history with Austrian economics and political philosophy. Career Beginnings, Law Firm Deferment, and London Experience [36:10] After law school, Kinsella secured a job at a Houston oil and gas law firm in 1991, coinciding with his wife’s engineering move there. However, a legal recession—possibly tied to economic downturns or oil industry fluctuations—left firms short on work, leading some to rescind offers. His firm instead proposed deferring 10-15 incoming associates for a year, paying partial salary (one-third to half). Kinsella eagerly accepted, viewing it as an opportunity. He used the funds to spend a year in London pursuing a master’s in international business law, which he describes as a great experience that he loved. This international exposure broadened his legal perspective, aiding his later writings on global business, contract theory, and anarchy, making his career more intellectually fulfilling. Shift to Patent Law, IP Opposition, and Future Plans [38:00] Kinsella switched to patent law for national mobility, initially supporting IP due to Rand but concluding by 1994 it should be abolished, as it contradicted property rights. His vocal opposition never harmed his 30-year career—spanning law firms, general counsel roles, and private practice—instead positioning him as an expert. Now retired, he focuses on writing, including Copy This Book, to critique how IP stifles innovation like AI. He invites legal career questions via stephankinsella.com or @NSKinsella on social media. Haman wraps up by encouraging support at hamannature.substack.com. Note: The transcript does not mention any accident in 1983 while working construction, so no elaboration is provided here.   TRANSCRIPT (From youtube; cleaned up by Grok). body { font-family: Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 1.6; margin: 20px; max-width: 800px; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; } h1, h2 { color: #2c3e50; } .timestamp { font-weight: bold; color: #7f8c8d; } .speaker { font-weight: bold; color: #e74c3c; } .section { margin-top: 20px; border-left: 3px solid #3498db; padding-left: 10px; } Haman Nature Episode 109: Interview with Stephan Kinsella Adam Haman interviews patent attorney, philosopher, legal theorist, and libertarian anarchist Stephan Kinsella about his life, works, and thoughts on anarcho-capitalism, legal theory, and more. Originally aired: March 24, 2025 Intro [00:00] Adam Haman: Hello and welcome to Haman Nature. I’m Adam Haman, and on today’s show, I have an interview with the great libertarian theorist and patent attorney, Stephan Kinsella. I believe this is his third or fourth appearance on the show. I asked him some probing questions about anarcho-capitalism, libertarian legal theory, and philosophy. In the back half, I talk to him about his life, which is very, very interesting. So, please enjoy Haman Nature, a journey in search of a peaceful and prosperous society with human nature as a guide, led by your host, Adam Haman. [01:00] Adam Haman: Hello, Stephan, welcome back to Haman Nature. Stephan Kinsella: Hey, Adam, it’s great to see you again. Adam Haman: Today, I’d like to ask you a couple of questions about philosophy and anarchy, and then I want to hear the story of Stephan Kinsella, if you’d indulge us. Stephan Kinsella: Sure, okay. Does Stephan believe there is a level of technology required for "Ancapistan" to "work"? [01:23] Adam Haman: My partner on this show, Tyrone the Porcupine Hobo, mentioned something surprising from a conversation about you. He said he learned from you—either from something you wrote or said on a podcast—that our species won’t achieve anything close to “Ancapistan” unless we reach a high enough level of technology that we haven’t yet attained. Did he hear you correctly, or what are your thoughts on that? Stephan Kinsella: That’s not exactly what I think,