There’s a Reason Even ‘Smart’ People Surrender to Trump
Feb 13, 2025
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Masha Gessen, a prominent columnist and expert on authoritarianism, engages in a deep discussion about why numerous individuals and institutions have compromised their values in the face of Trump's influence. The conversation reveals the psychological factors behind compliance, exploring concepts like 'anticipatory obedience.' Gessen also critiques the challenges in uniting Americans for collective action, especially regarding marginalized communities, and reflects on personal safety and authenticity during these tumultuous times.
The podcast underscores the phenomenon of anticipatory obedience, highlighting how fear of repercussions drives compliance among politically opposed individuals and institutions.
Drawing parallels to authoritarianism in Russia, Gessen emphasizes the alarming speed of normalization of extreme views in the U.S. political landscape.
Deep dives
The Dynamics of Power and Compliance
The discussion highlights the reasons behind individuals and institutions capitulating to Donald Trump's authority, particularly noting the lack of a coherent opposition against his policies. Many members of Congress, regardless of their private opposition to Trump's appointments, have confirmed his cabinet nominees, reflecting a broader trend of obedience to power. This phenomenon is juxtaposed with the concept of anticipatory obedience, which describes the tendency of people to comply with authority in advance, often due to fears about potential repercussions. The podcast emphasizes that such compliance often stems from a desire to maintain one's position and continue providing services rather than an outright endorsement of Trump's agenda.
The Unpredictability of Authoritarianism
Masha Gessen draws parallels between the political climate in the U.S. and their experiences in Russia, illustrating how the swift normalization of authoritarian practices can catch citizens off guard. Gessen expresses surprise at the rapid acceptance of previously taboo ideas, echoing the sentiments of a society gradually accommodating more extreme views. They suggest that while we were expecting systemic changes with Trump's presidency, the overwhelming speed of these shifts may create a sense of helplessness for those opposing them. This sentiment is compounded by businesses and political figures eager to align themselves with Trump, fearing the consequences of defiance.
The Need for Collective Action and Resistance
The conversation emphasizes the essential role of collective action in resisting authoritarianism, particularly in a culture that traditionally prioritizes individual success over communal welfare. Both speakers critique the failure of Democrats to find a unified strategy against Trump and call for a re-engagement with progressive values rather than accommodation. As institutions like PBS face pressures to conform for survival, the podcast posits that surrendering small values may lead to larger compromises down the line. In light of the ongoing challenges faced by targeted communities, such as trans individuals, the importance of vocal resistance and solidarity becomes crucial for fostering a more just environment.
The deputy editor of Opinion, Patrick Healy, speaks with the columnist M. Gessen about why so many people and institutions, including Democrats, have bent the knee to Trump, despite strongly disagreeing with him.
Thoughts? Email us at theopinions@nytimes.com.
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