KOL349 | CouchStreams Ep 58 on Break the Cycle with Joshua Smith

Kinsella on Liberty Podcast, Episode 349. Streamed live on Jul 13, 2021. Stephan and Joshua Smith sit down to talk Intellectual Property, Hans Herman Hoppe, and heavyweight debates (on "heavyweight", see tweet posted below). (Afterhours chat here: KOL462 | CouchStreams After Hours on Break the Cycle with Joshua Smith (2021)) Grok shownotes and Youtube transcript below. https://youtu.be/w9t-HD5J2xY Excerpt: Stephan on the NAP https://youtu.be/kbW57Ca9kNk Join the patreon at https://patreon.com/breakthecyclejs Join Subscribestar at https://Subscribestar.com/breakthecyc... Tips at https://paypal.me/JoshuaSmithChair2020 available on all of your favorite podcast apps. https://toplobsta.com for dope gear. https://lorenzotti.coffee for delicious Italian coffee thank you to Whiskey Grenade for the great jams. Support the stream: https://streamlabs.com/fightthedespots Discussed: Disinvited From Cato Twitter post below: I think you should realize you are talking to a heavyweight and should be grateful I am devoting a few minutes to you, and take advantage of it, and be respectful and not a punk. That's what I think. — Stephan Kinsella (@NSKinsella) September 9, 2020 GROK SHOWNOTES Show Notes for KOL349 | CouchStreams Ep. 58 with Joshua Smith Episode Overview: In this episode of Break the Cycle (originally aired on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/live/w9t-HD5J2xY), host Joshua Smith interviews Stephan Kinsella, a former Ludwig von Mises Institute scholar, founder of the Center for the Study of Innovative Freedom, and author of Against Intellectual Property. The discussion covers Kinsella’s journey to libertarianism, his staunch opposition to intellectual property (IP), the impact of patent laws on industries like pharmaceuticals, and his thoughts on emerging libertarian trends like post-libertarianism and Hans-Hermann Hoppe’s philosophy. The episode is packed with insights into libertarian theory, legal systems, and practical implications of IP laws, interspersed with lively audience engagement via super chats. Segment 1: Introduction and Kinsella’s Background (0:00–14:56) 0:03–1:06: Intro music and Joshua Smith’s opening remarks, welcoming listeners to the show. 1:06–2:28: Smith introduces the episode, plugs sponsors (lorenzotti.coffee, toplobsta.com, anthemplanning.com), and expresses excitement about the guest. 2:28–3:29: Smith introduces Stephan Kinsella, highlighting his Mises Institute background, founding of the Center for the Study of Innovative Freedom, and his book Against Intellectual Property. Kinsella confirms he’s COVID-free after contracting it at Porcfest. 3:29–6:09: Kinsella shares his journey from electrical engineering at LSU to becoming a patent lawyer and anarcho-capitalist. He explains how his interest in libertarianism developed in high school, complemented by his legal training, particularly in Louisiana’s unique Roman law-influenced system. 6:09–9:02: Discussion shifts to Louisiana’s distinct legal system, rooted in French and Spanish civil law, contrasting with common law systems elsewhere in the U.S. Kinsella notes its influence on his libertarian legal scholarship. 9:02–14:56: Smith recounts his experiences running for Libertarian Party chair and his shift to a more confrontational online presence. Kinsella discusses his own brash online style, emphasizing bluntness for efficiency and dismissing insincere arguments. Segment 2: Intellectual Property and Copyright Issues (14:56–29:03) 14:56–18:05: Kinsella outlines his core argument against IP: it violates libertarian principles by granting others control over your property without consent, akin to a non-consensual negative easement. He compares this to physical trespass or battery. 18:05–21:00: He elaborates on the harms of IP, including how copyright stifles free speech and patents hinder innovation, impoverishing society by slowing technological progress. 21:00–23:37: Smith brings up pharmaceutical patents, and Kinsella critiques the “unholy alliance” of patents, FDA regulations, and tort systems that inflate drug costs and prioritize artificial drugs over natural remedies. He references Dr. David Martin’s work on coronavirus patents, suggesting profit motives intertwine with government mandates. 23:37–26:13: Super chat questions touch on vaccine magnetism (a jest) and patent waivers for COVID vaccines. Kinsella debunks the notion of China “stealing” U.S. IP and questions the timeline of vaccine patents, noting patents typically take years to issue. 26:13–29:03: Discussion of Martin Shkreli’s case, where Kinsella clarifies it was an FDA-granted monopoly, not a patent, that allowed price gouging. He notes Shkreli’s actions exposed systemic flaws, though he was vilified for it. Segment 3: Open Source, Right to Repair, and Post-Libertarianism (29:03–43:56) 29:03–32:02: Kinsella addresses open-source software as a counterexample to claims that copyright is necessary for profit, but critiques “copyleft” licenses that rely on copyright to enforce restrictions. He prefers unrestricted sharing (e.g., CC0 licenses). 32:02–35:07: A super chat on “right to repair” prompts Kinsella to criticize it as a band-aid for copyright’s flaws. He opposes forcing manufacturers to reveal proprietary information but supports abolishing copyright to enable third-party repairs naturally. 35:07–36:00: A humorous super chat about “IP Freely” is acknowledged as a joke, referencing a comedic author pseudonym. 36:00–40:05: Smith raises “post-libertarianism,” a trend questioning the non-aggression principle (NAP). Kinsella defends the NAP as a shorthand for property rules, arguing that critics either misunderstand it or favor aggression, aligning with statism. 40:05–43:56: A super chat asks about resisting government overreach. Kinsella views this as a strategic issue, doubting isolated acts of defiance will dismantle the state. He advocates for broader cultural shifts toward liberty. Segment 4: Hoppe’s Popularity and Libertarian Theory (43:56–59:00) 43:56–47:01: A super chat prompts discussion of Hans-Hermann Hoppe’s rising popularity. Kinsella finds the “memeification” of Hoppe amusing but attributes it to his intriguing personality and ideas, despite smear campaigns labeling him a monarchist or fascist. 47:01–50:08: Kinsella explains Hoppe’s argumentation ethics, which argues that peaceful discourse presupposes libertarian principles like self-ownership and property rights. Any ethic violating peace contradicts the context of civilized argument. 50:08–54:04: Addressing Hoppe’s alleged monarchism, Kinsella clarifies Hoppe is an anarchist, not a monarchist. Hoppe argues monarchy can be better than democracy in some respects (e.g., long-term incentives vs. short-term populism), but neither is ideal compared to anarchy. 54:04–59:00: Kinsella shares his toughest debates (none on IP, but challenging discussions on argumentation ethics) and critiques debate formats. A super chat about protecting artwork leads Kinsella to argue copying isn’t theft; only dishonesty (e.g., claiming authorship) warrants stigma. Segment 5: Brazilian Bucket Challenge and Future Projects (59:00–1:07:10) 59:00–1:00:39: A super chat about the “Brazilian Bucket Challenge” reveals it as a meme to encourage reading Hoppe and Mises by claiming hidden “bucket” references. Kinsella shares his participation, initially skeptical but amused. 1:00:39–1:02:14: Kinsella recommends Rothbard’s Ethics of Liberty, Economic Controversies, and The Free Market Reader for libertarian newcomers, praising their clarity and insight. 1:02:14–1:04:05: Kinsella outlines future projects: an anthology of anarchist essays, a curated collection of his writings (Law in a Libertarian World), and a new IP book, Copy This Book. He notes his semi-retirement, allowing more time for libertarian work. 1:04:05–1:07:10: Smith closes by thanking Kinsella, plugging sponsors, and promoting upcoming episodes with Tom Woods, Brad Palumbo, and Austin Peterson. He encourages support via super chats and memberships for exclusive streams. Where to Find Stephan Kinsella: Website: stephankinsella.com IP Resources: c4sif.org Social Media: @NSKinsella (Twitter, Facebook) Support Break the Cycle: Sponsors: lorenzotti.coffee, toplobsta.com, anthemplanning.com (use BTC for discounts). Join Patreon/Subscribestar: patreon.com/breakthecyclejs, subscribestar.com/breakthecyclejs for exclusive streams and discounts. Link to Episode: YouTube Podcast Page: stephankinsella.com/as_paf_podcast/kol349-couchstreams-ep-58-joshua-smith/ TRANSCRIPT 0:03 [Music] 0:14 so [Music] 0:28 oh driving in my car helicopter rides 0:48 [Music] 0:56 is [Music] 1:06 hello hello hello and welcome to another episode of break the cycle with me your host 1:11 joshua smith i hope everyone's having a wonderful tuesday night we got an awesome show as per the usual for you 1:17 i'm just super stoked on this entire week of shows it's it's just amazing to me that uh any of these guys 1:22 want to come on my podcast first of all but uh i guess we're i guess we're growing pretty fast uh so that's a good thing uh let's talk 1:29 about some sponsors of course we've got lorenzotti.coffee for all your delicious italian coffee needs delivered directly 1:34 to your door bring the taste of italy home use btc to check out for a 10 discount and of course my friend my 1:40 partner on the show top lobster.com one of the greatest guys when it comes to graphic stuff he hand draws 1:46