Impolitic with John Heilemann

Jonathan Karl: Vengeance Is Mine, Sayeth the President

Dec 1, 2025
Jonathan Karl, ABC News chief Washington correspondent and bestselling author, shares insights from his new book, *Retribution*. He discusses Trump's enduring desire for vengeance, which now fuels his 2024 campaign, alongside his complex dynamic with the media. Karl reflects on how Trump's behavior has remained stable over decades while subtly shifting focus on legacy. He also reveals Nancy Pelosi's covert role in prompting Biden's reelection exit and clarifies Steve Bannon's influence over Trump’s decisions.
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INSIGHT

Trump Wants Praise And The Fight

  • Trump craves attention and approval from mainstream media while simultaneously warring with it.
  • Jonathan Karl says Trump believes he can still convince skeptical reporters by talking to them directly.
INSIGHT

Thirty Years Of The Same Showman

  • Karl has covered Trump for over 30 years and sees little change in his persona.
  • He notes Trump's showmanship and charisma remain central while legacy focus has grown.
ANECDOTE

Oval Office Roast, Then A Thank You

  • After trashing Jonathan Karl on camera, Trump called him over privately and thanked him.
  • Karl recounts Trump laughed and said "you were tough" as staff escorted people out.
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