Ian Johnson on "Sparks," his new book on China's underground historians
Sep 21, 2023
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Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Ian Johnson discusses his new book on China's underground historians exposing dark truths of the PRC's history. Topics include the control of historical narratives, collective memory, citizen journalism, regime critics, dissent and Christianity, historical nihilism, and the insight the book provides on regime critics in China.
Underground historians in China are challenging the state's control over historical narratives.
Counter historians aim to preserve a collective memory and promote a more accurate account of China's past through digital technologies.
The overrepresentation of Christians in dissident communities in China raises questions about their role in challenging the state and their motivations.
Deep dives
The importance of a complete accounting of the past
The podcast episode discusses the significance of having a more comprehensive understanding of China's history, particularly in relation to the control of historical narratives by the state. It acknowledges that many societies, including the United States, grapple with debates and discussions about their own histories. The episode highlights China's unique position as a nation with a continuous civilization and the complexities of historical interpretations shaped by dynastic rule and the ideology of communism. While the party seeks to maintain control over historical narratives, there is a growing need for a more nuanced and accurate understanding of China's past.
The role of underground historians and their challenges
The episode focuses on the work of counter or underground historians in China. These individuals play a crucial role in documenting and uncovering hidden aspects of history that challenge the official narratives. They face significant risks, as the Chinese government tightly controls historical interpretations and enforces historical nihilism. The podcast highlights notable figures such as filmmaker Aishao Ming and citizen journalist Jiang Shuhui, who have used digital technologies to shed light on important incidents like the Anti-Rightist Campaign and the Cultural Revolution. These underground historians strive to preserve a collective memory and promote a more accurate account of China's past.
The potential for change and mainstream acceptance
The podcast explores the possibility of change and mainstream acceptance for counter historians in China. While the current political climate may limit their impact, the episode suggests that their work could lay the foundation for future generations. It emphasizes that change does not necessarily require a democratic revolution, but rather a shift in the party's approach to historical interpretations. The podcast highlights the aspiration of these historians to have their work embraced by Chinese researchers and to contribute to a more open period in China's history. The episode concludes by encouraging a nuanced understanding of dissent in China and the potential for future acceptance of alternative historical narratives.
China's Underground Historians and Their Battle for the Future
Ian Johnson's book "Sparks: China's Underground Historians and Their Battle for the Future" sheds light on the existence of a small but significant collective memory of a different kind of China. Despite the current powerful state under Xi Jinping, these underground historians use digital technologies and person-to-person contacts to challenge the dominant narrative and keep alive an alternative vision of China. Johnson argues that engaging with these individuals, who have agency and are actively doing interesting work, can offer a different perspective on China and potentially lead to more meaningful interlocutors for the West.
The Role of Christianity in Chinese Dissident Communities
While not all regime critics in China are Christians, Ian Johnson's book highlights the overrepresentation of Christians in dissident communities. The reasons for this are multifaceted and complex, ranging from Christians providing a support community for dissidents to Christianity's emphasis on higher moral authority, which can lead to challenging the state. It is unclear if this overrepresentation is coincidental or if there is a deeper connection between dissent and Christianity in China. Regardless, understanding the role of Christianity within dissident communities provides insights into the motivations and dynamics of these individuals.
This week on Sinica, Pulitzer Prize-winning veteran journalist Ian Johnson, now a senior China fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, joins Kaiser to discuss his new book, Sparks" China's Underground HIstorians and their Battle for the Future. Profiling both prominent and lesser-known individuals working to expose dark truths about some of the grimmest periods of the PRC's history, including the Great Leap Forward famine and the violence of the Cultural Revolution, Johnson argues that the efforts of China's "counter-historians" have managed to survive the stepped-up efforts of Xi Jinping to control the historical narrative completely.
03:27 – Is the obsessive control of historical narratives a particularly Chinese phenomenon?
07:19 – The life of Ai Xiaoming and the creation of a collective memory as one of the main themes in the book
21:46 – The story of Jiang Xue, citizen journalist
25:22 – Journalistic stubbornness of Tan Hecheng
28:39 – Cheng Hongguo and the Zhiwuzhi salon
30:26 – Common traits shared by many Chinese regime critics
37:17 – Is there a link between dissent in China and Christianity?
39:53 – Historical nihilism and sensitive topics for the Chinese Communist Party
47:08 – Are counter-historians especially noteworthy because they’re exceptional, or representative?
57:36 – The most important insight the book adds to our understanding of regime critics in China
