Count Me In® Ep. 51: Dr. Kelly Richmond Pope - Fraud, Film, and Lifelong Learning
Dr. Kelly Richmond Pope is an Associate Professor in the School of Accountancy and Management Information Systems at DePaul University in Chicago, Illinois where she teaches financial, managerial and forensic accounting. Kelly’s research on organizational misconduct culminated into directing and producing the award-winning documentary, All the Queen’s Horses, in 2017 which streamed on Netflix from July 2018-2019. In 2018, Pope became a TED speaker with her impactful and timely TED Talk entitled ‘How whistle-blowers shape history.’ Her research has been published in the Behavioral Research in Accounting, Auditing: A Journal of Theory & Practice, Journal of Business Ethics, The CPA Journal and WebCPA. She holds a Ph.D. in accounting from Virginia Tech and is a licensed CPA. In this episode of Count Me In, Kelly summarizes all her above experiences and shares an insightful perspective on how accounting, and accounting education, can effectively combine her passions for fraud, film, and lifelong learning. Her general curiosity and involvement in various topics enables her to peak the interest of and engage her students on a regular basis. To hear about how you may be able to weave your passions together and enhance your learning in the area of accounting, download and listen to this episode now!
Contact Kelly: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelly-richmond-pope-cpa-83689a5/
Kelly's Website: www.kellyrichmondpope.com
TED Talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/kelly_richmond_pope_how_whistle_blowers_shape_history/up-next
All the Queen's Horses: https://www.allthequeenshorsesfilm.com/
Red Flag Mania: www.redflagmania.com
FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Adam: (00:05)
Welcome back to Count Me In, IMAs podcast about all things affecting the accounting and finance world. I'm your host, Adam Larson, and I will be previewing episode 51 of our series for you. In this episode, Mitch spoke with Dr. Kelly Richmond Pope and associate professor in the school of accountancy and management information systems at DePaul university in Chicago, Illinois. Mitch asked Kelly about her various passions and how she works to combine them all in her accounting classes. Kelly is an education innovator who is an extremely engaging and thoughtful speaker. So at this time I'd like to bring you episode 51 of count me in with Dr. Kelly Richmond Pope.
Mitch: (00:48)
So based on your LinkedIn and some other podcasts I've listened to you contribute to, I know you've said in the past, your passions are fraud, film, and lifelong learning. So to kind of start and we'll talk about fraud first, what is it about that and ethics that makes you so passionate?
Kelly: (01:06)
Okay. Well, I think what makes me so passionate about fraud as a subject area is that any of us can find ourselves either engaged in one or victimized by one. And so it doesn't discriminate. And so I think it's not a situation where it's them. It could be any of us. And so I think the, the fact that anybody could be involved in one is really what fascinates me about them. And I think if you look at the trend of popular culture with the number of shows about crime and fraud, I think other people would agree that it is a very addictive type discipline. And I think it's so addictive because it's so applicable to all of us. So that's really what fuels my fascination.
Mitch: (02:02)
And I completely agree with you. It really does draw you in all these movies and television shows. I know another part of, you know, or the main part really of what you do is teaching. And I'm just curious how you kind of weave this idea of this fascination and passion for fraud into the classroom.
Kelly: (02:20)
Well, I think what is really important about accounting as a discipline is accounting is the backbone of everything or money or the ability to account for money correctly. And so regardless of what the fraud scenario is, there's always a money story and there's always a financial impact. So the person that can understand that and explain that to the lay person is the most powerful person in the room. So I use fraud as a way to really invigorated my accounting classes and my accounting students so they can understand the power that they're learning. Because I think that fraud and ethics is the absence of accounting done, right? And so really helping students and even adult learners or corporate learners understand the power of this information is important. And I think the fraud stories are so powerful, but there's always a money story in every case. And so if we can better understand that, then it makes for a more enriching learning experience, whether that's the classroom, whether that's a CPE session, whether that's a training workshop. So I use that really as part of my secret sauce, if you will, when I'm doing a presentation.
Mitch: (03:46)
And then I suppose the next step is where we can start to weave in that second piece of your passion triangle, if you want to call it and film. So in addition to just basic fraud and ethics curriculum and your accounting courses, you know, how do you go about working in film and media? Are there any specific examples you'd like to share?
Kelly: (04:06)
Well, I had a crazy idea about six years ago that I could create my own film. And so I did, I enrolled in a film fellowship program with Kartemquin films, which is a film collaborative based in Chicago. And I learned the business and the creative aspect of filmmaking and I want it to bring that type of storytelling into the accounting discipline because I think that stories are a way that we communicate and a way that we learn a lot of information. And I wanted to create my own. So I did this six month film fellowship program and out of that was the birth of my documentary, called All The Queen's Sources and All The Queen's Sources streamed on Netflix for a year from 27, 2018 to 2019. And I'm, it now lives on iTunes, Amazon, Google play direct TV, YouTube. And it actually was the number one documentary on iTunes, Amazon, YouTube, direct TV on it's first debut two week debut, weeks on that platform. But I think it shows the power of a great story, but I'm teaching accounting through that, through the story. So that's how it really merged the two. I didn't always want to be in the situation where I was relying on another filmmaker to hit the key points that I wanted to hit. So I just said, you know what, I can do it myself. And I think it's really important when someone from our profession makes a film because we have, we're going to go about a film and the way that an accountant needs to pull out these key key topics, which is very different than a traditional filmmaker may pull out key topics. So I think film and accounting go hand in hand.
Mitch: (06:03)
That's really interesting and I can certainly appreciate the perspective of knowing the steps to go through the process and convey the right message through the story. But everything you just said leads perfectly into step three, which is lifelong learning. You already talked about, you know, learning how ...