Blueprints for Making Films Outside of the System

Mar 13, 2025

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In this episode, GG Hawkins and Jason Hellerman present a roundtable discussion with independent filmmakers Daniel Talbott, Sav Rodgers, and Mikko Mäkelä. These three creatives share their unique journeys in the film industry, highlighting the importance of queer cinema, mentorship, and community. They discuss the challenges of gatekeeping, the power of DIY filmmaking, and the need for filmmakers to take control of their own greenlighting process.

From premiering at Sundance and Tribeca to navigating the ever-changing landscape of independent film distribution, this episode offers a deep dive into the resilience and creativity required to make films outside the traditional Hollywood system.

In this episode, No Film School’s GG Hawkins, Jason Hellerman, Daniel Talbott, Sav Rodgers, and Mikko Mäkelä discuss:

[00:07] GG Hawkins and Jason Hellerman introduce the episode, recorded ahead of South by Southwest
[00:41] Introducing the roundtable guests: Daniel Talbott, Sav Rodgers, and Mikko Mäkelä
[01:06] The unique journeys of each filmmaker and their impact on queer cinema
[01:30] Challenges in the independent film landscape, including gatekeeping and DIY filmmaking
[02:24] The importance of self-greenlighting and not waiting for permission
[03:12] Balancing artistic expression with the business side of filmmaking
[10:44] The role of mentorship and community in helping emerging queer filmmakers
[15:14] Strategies for inspiring industry gatekeepers to invest in queer stories
[22:21] Navigating meetings with executives and dealing with industry fears
[26:40] How the collapse of the streaming acquisition model affects independent filmmakers
[28:17] The importance of finding ways to share resources and build a film community
[31:42] Embracing both DIY filmmaking and larger-scale projects in tandem
[33:13] How a filmmaker’s unique voice is their most valuable asset
[34:11] Moments when the filmmakers had to greenlight themselves
[41:57] The experience of sharing personal work with an audience
[47:10] How independent queer films resonate with unexpected audiences
[52:14] The power of queer filmmakers supporting one another
[53:38] How audiences can better support independent queer cinema
[56:02] What’s next for Daniel, Sav, and Mikko

Memorable Quotes:

"The ability to go out and shoot your own work is the way to prove that people are interested, to prove that things are important."
"Don't ask for permission. Make it, go do it, find the audience, bring them in, prove everybody wrong."
"We are as complicated and human as anyone else on this planet. Get to know our stories and be uncomfortable with it."
"For queer cinema to stay authentic and radical, it will, by necessity, most often be made in a DIY spirit."

Guests

Find Out More:

Watch Chasing, Chasing Amy by Sav Rodgers: Available on streaming platforms and through libraries on Kanopy
Transgender Film Center
Explore Mikko Mäkelä’s work: www.mikkomakayla.com
Follow Daniel Talbott on Instagram: @DanielCameronTalbott

More from No Film School:

Visit NoFilmSchool.com for industry news, interviews, and filmmaking resources.

Have a question or topic suggestion? Email us: podcast@nofilmschool.com

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