The Times Tech Podcast The humans training AI to be better
Dec 12, 2025
Edwin Chen, Founder and CEO of Surge AI, shares his journey from data science at Google and Twitter to leading a company that recruits expert annotators for AI training. He discusses the significance of Artificial General Intelligence (AGI) and the vital role of human expertise in enhancing AI models. Chen emphasizes the difference between high-quality annotations and cheap labeling, and warns about the societal impacts and motivations driving the AGI race. His insights unveil the unseen yet crucial work that shapes AI's future.
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AGI Is AVague Prize Driving Hype
- AGI descriptions vary widely and serve as marketing fuel for the AI boom.
- The term bundles scientific ambition with vast economic and geopolitical stakes.
Definitions Shape Power And Contracts
- OpenAI defines AGI as systems outperforming humans at most economically valuable work and built that into its Microsoft contract.
- That legal framing changes access and incentives once AGI is declared.
Human Experts Are The Missing Ingredient
- Edwin Chen argues human expertise is the key bottleneck to making models 'street smart' rather than just book smart.
- Surge AI uses expert humans to probe and teach models deep, real-world reasoning.