This week, Vanessa and special guest Nathalie Folkerts explore the theme of Love in Chapter 38 of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix! They discuss Hagrid’s caretaking, systemic failures, and loving moments with the kids! Throughout the episode we consider the question: how can we create more loving systems?

Thank you to Helena for this week’s voicemail! Next week we're wrapping up Book 5 with Matt Potts!

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