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697: Cancelling "Judeo-Christian," Defending Slavery, & Rethinking Gaza with J. Ross Wagner

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Nov 26, 2025

Guest

J. Ross Wagner

J. Ross Wagner, an Associate Professor at Duke Divinity School and Anglican priest, dives into thought-provoking discussions about faith and politics. He explores why conservative Christians are moving away from the term 'Judeo-Christian' and the unsettling rise of defenses for slavery among some Christian circles. Wagner also urges a reexamination of evangelical support for Israel, emphasizing the importance of understanding civilian suffering in Gaza and advocating for nonviolent witness from Palestinian Christians. It's a compelling call to prioritize Jesus' teachings over nationalism.

01:22:34

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INSIGHT

Origins Of 'Judeo-Christian' Framing

The term 'Judeo-Christian' emerged in the 20th century as a political and cultural shorthand, not a theological identity.
Its original aim was to include Jews against rising anti-Semitism while defining a shared Western moral framework.

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ANECDOTE

Name Restored In 2 John Claim

Lincoln Blumel of BYU argues a scribe error erased a woman's name in 2 John, restoring 'Electi' as a personal addressee.
Caitlin Chess urges caution and academic vetting before claiming dramatic biblical manuscript revisions.

insights

INSIGHT

Christian Nationalism Rejects Inclusion

Christian nationalists explicitly reject 'Judeo-Christian' because it includes Jews and limits exclusionary aims.
That rejection signals a shift from inclusion toward an exclusivist Christian nationalist identity.

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Hosts Reunite and Open the Show

Jesus Horror Movie Conversation

07:11 • 6min

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Woman Hidden in the Bible Claim

13:33 • 6min

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New Holy Post Plus Segment: Advice-ish

19:03 • 1min

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Decline of 'Judeo-Christian' on the Right

20:16 • 5min

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Christian Nationalism vs. Inclusion

25:40 • 6min

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Doug Wilson, Slavery, and Christian Defense

31:46 • 6min

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Theological Justifications for Slavery Examined

37:59 • 4min

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Loyalty to Tradition and Its Dangers

41:34 • 4min

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Jesus' Teachings vs. Christian Nationalism

45:08 • 3min

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Practical Response to Christian Nationalists

47:58 • 8min

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Introduction to Gaza Book and Guest

55:30 • 2min

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Why This Book Was Written

57:07 • 3min

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Victimhood Narratives and Moral Blindness

01:00:10 • 4min

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Evangelical Rallying to Israel After October 7

01:03:51 • 5min

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Avoiding Blanket Judgments of Palestinians

01:09:10 • 6min

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Palestinian Christian Voices and Nonviolent Witness

01:15:22 • 2min

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What American Churches Should Rethink

01:17:28 • 2min

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Current Ceasefire: Fragile Peace and Outlook

Being Christian After the Desolation of Gaza

J. Ross Wagner

Bruce N. Fisk

This 2025 book interrogates Western complicity in the ongoing genocide in Gaza, manifested through political institutions, media discourse, and Christian theology. It asks what it means to be Christian after Gaza’s devastation and Israel’s colonization of Palestinian land and people. Through personal stories, biblical analysis, and critique of American Christian discourse, the authors demonstrate how certain interpretations of the Bible contribute to death and destruction, while offering a vision for justice, repentance, and change. The book is a call for Christian responsibility and prophetic witness in an age of global indifference.

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• Mentioned in 4 episodes

book on Christian nationalism

Stephen Wolf

#2253

• Mentioned in 16 episodes

Being Jewish After the Destruction of Gaza: A Reckoning

Peter Beinart

#4244

• Mentioned in 9 episodes

Mere Christendom

Douglas Wilson

In 'Mere Christendom', Douglas Wilson presents a vision for a society where Christianity plays a central role in governance, arguing that secularism is unsustainable and that Christian principles are essential for maintaining true liberty. He advocates for a 'mere Christendom' where nations acknowledge the Lordship of Jesus Christ, without necessarily establishing a state church. Wilson's work emphasizes the importance of divine authority in public life to sustain a culture of freedom.

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• Mentioned in 4 episodes

Our American Israel

The Story of an Entangled Alliance

Amy Kaplan

This book examines the profound cultural ties that bind America and Israel together. It tells the story of how a Jewish state in the Middle East came to resonate profoundly with a broad range of Americans in the twentieth century, beginning with debates about Zionism after World War II. Kaplan challenges the associations underlying this special alliance, highlighting how both nations share a belief in their own exceptional nature and how this has shaped their relationship. The book delves into the impact of popular narratives, literature, and film on this alliance, and how it has been influenced by shared origin myths, the Holocaust, and contemporary political realities.

The term "Judeo-Christian" has been used by the Religious Right for decades as a positive shorthand for biblical values in the culture, so why are conservative Christians now rejecting the label? And why are Christian defenses of slavery and the Confederacy gaining popularity 160 years after the Civil War? Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn explain how the rising influence of Christian nationalism drives both trends. J. Ross Wagner, editor of the new book, "Being Christian After the Desolation of Gaza," talks to Skye about how both American and Palestinian Christians are reexamining evangelical support for Israel. Also this week, a woman has been hiding in the New Testament for nearly 2,000 years, and there's a new horror movie about a teenage Jesus. What could go wrong?

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0:00 - Show Starts

3:29 - Theme Song

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7:10 - Jesus Horror Movie?

13:44 - Hidden Woman in the Bible?

20:20 - Judeo-Christian No More?

31:50 - Slavery Debate Continues

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54:25 - Sponsor - Tyndale - The Life Application Study Bible is here to give you resources to help you understand why scripture matters and how it applies today! Check it out now at:

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55:25 - Interview

58:20 - Why Was This Written?

1:03:50 - Pro-Israel and Antisemitism

1:13:31 - Christian Palestinian Response

1:22:00 - End Credits

Links Mentioned in News Segment:

Christianity Today Article on Jesus Horror Movie:

https://www.christianitytoday.com/2025/11/the-carpenters-son-nicolas-cage/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Christians%20from%2045%20Countries%20Petition%20China%20to%20Release%20Pastor%20%7C%20Hindu%20Nationalists%20Attack%20Missionary%20Bus%3A%20CT%20Daily&utm_campaign=CT%20Daily%20Briefing%20-%2011-14-2025&vgo_ee=A9uyoW2d0AIM3QLf0XsIr2KqZu31%2FZWwqyRndI7tytjVfTLPKU7FMTrl8ZnNdw%3D%3D%3AGQRnuGbB%2B00KGOB7ZwEM%2FCWGl7W8Ep9S

Woman Hidden in the Bible:

https://greekreporter.com/2025/11/21/lost-greek-woman-bible/?utm_source=flipboard&utm_content=GreekReporter/magazine/Greek+Reporter

The Right Rejecting the Judeo-Christian term: https://religionnews.com/2025/11/18/on-the-right-judeo-christian-values-are-out-and-christian-nationalism-is-in/?utm_source=RNS+Updates&utm_campaign=506d68c8ac-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2025_11_19_01_03&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c5356cb657-506d68c8ac-387424458

Other Resources:

Being a Christian After the Desolation of Gaza by Bruce Fisk and J. Ross Wagner:

https://amzn.to/482NkBU

Holy Post website: https://www.holypost.com/

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