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The Seen and the Unseen - hosted by Amit Varma
Ep 378: Rohit Lamba Will Never Be Bezubaan
Apr 22, 2024
Rohit Lamba, an economist with a poetic soul, discusses economics, policy, and Urdu poetry with Amit Varma. They explore the synergy between poetry, empathy, and probabilistic thinking in public policy decisions. The conversation also delves into the challenges of communicating complex economic concepts effectively to a broader audience and the evolving landscape of knowledge dissemination. Other topics include cultural identity, societal norms, and the nuances of different types of relationships.
06:31:10
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Quick takeaways
- Diverse educational paths foster individual talent and skill development.
- Accurate translations are crucial for conveying ideas across languages.
- Curating knowledge sources enhances understanding in the information age.
- Centralized exams risk homogenizing education, neglecting diverse learner strengths.
- Political influences distort universities' focus on academic excellence.
- Integrating theory and practice is essential for effective economic decision-making.
Deep dives
Importance of Nurturing Multitudes Within Us
Striving to nurture the various aspects of our being is crucial as it prevents us from solely focusing on one skill and neglecting the broader world and ourselves. Life should not be solely about accomplishments but also about who we are. Poetry plays a vital role in connecting us to our deeper selves and humanity, fostering empathy and open-mindedness.
Challenges in Linguistic Translations
Translating complex economic and political ideas into languages like Hindi poses challenges as certain English terms lack direct equivalents. The contextual meaning behind words in different languages can affect the interpretation of ideas. This difficulty highlights the importance of ensuring accurate and nuanced translations to maintain the original intent across different languages.
The Role of Public Intellectuals in Knowledge Dissemination
The evolving role of public intellectuals is crucial in navigating the information age's complexities, where opinions often overshadow factual information. Curating knowledge becomes essential for making sense of vast information sources. Encouraging diverse voices and expertise, beyond traditional academic pathways, can enrich knowledge dissemination and foster a more inclusive and diverse knowledge society.
Challenges of Centralization in Higher Education
Proposals for centralized exams in economics master's courses in India face criticism for potentially homogenizing education, disregarding the diverse talents and backgrounds of students. The speaker emphasizes the need for differentiated educational paths to cater to individual skills and learning abilities. Centralized exams may overlook the potential for learners with varied experiences to excel in the field, suggesting a deeper discussion on the direction of higher education in India.
The Role of Centralization in Education Policies
Discussion shifts to the issue of centralization in education policies, critiquing the homogenization brought on by standardized exams and curricula. The speaker questions why academic salaries do not reflect market value for specialized fields, highlighting the impact of centralized control on academic institutions. Arguing for lighter regulatory bodies in education, the focus turns to nurturing varied academic offerings and reducing bureaucratic intervention.
Impact of Politics in Academia
The conversation delves into the politicization of universities, shifting focus from academic excellence to political affiliation. Criticism is raised on universities becoming political arenas rather than centers of knowledge creation. The speaker expresses concern over universities losing their essence as scholarly hubs due to partisan influences, calling for a return to academic pursuits over political ideologies.
Theoretical Understanding versus Empirical Complexity in Economics
In the podcast, the complexity of understanding economic theories versus the real-world empirical challenges is highlighted. The discussion delves into the theoretical foundations provided, such as Friedman's delineation of the impact of minimum wages on employment in ideal free markets. However, the conversation acknowledges the practical reality where market imperfections and concentrations of power necessitate interventions like minimum wage regulations. This interplay between theory and practice in economics underscores the continual need for updated studies and policy adaptations.
Navigating the Swimming Pool of Knowledge and Truth Seeking
The metaphorical swimming pool of knowledge signifies the academic landscape where competing ideologies and narratives vie for dominance. The conversation alludes to the perpetual struggle in academia to approach truth-seeking amidst varying weights of personal objectives, professional success, and alignment with ideological viewpoints. The dynamic interplay between seeking the truth, narrative battles, and entrenched positions within academia mirrors the challenge of progressing towards a clearer understanding of complex socio-economic dynamics.
Balancing Theoretical Insight with Practical Considerations
The podcast explores the delicate balance between theoretical insights and practical considerations in economic analyses. It elucidates the necessity of addressing market imperfections and power dynamics while advocating for theoretical clarity and strategic policy implementations. The discussion emphasizes the importance of integrating rigorous theoretical frameworks with nuanced policy applications to navigate the intricacies of economic decision-making.
Seeking Truth and Innovation in Academia
The conversation delves into the quest for truth and innovation within academia, highlighting the interplay between competing viewpoints, theoretical frameworks, and pragmatic applications. The discussion underscores the significant role of maverick thinkers and behavioral types in challenging established paradigms and reshaping scholarly discourse. It reflects on the complexities and dilemmas faced by academics in aligning personal objectives with the pursuit of knowledge and institutional recognition.
Experiencing Failure and Learning Resilience
During his PhD program, the speaker faced a significant setback when he failed in a finance field exam. Initially disheartened, he found support from his friends and advisor, who encouraged him not to give up. Embracing the failure as a learning experience, he refocused his efforts, retook the exam, and eventually overcame the challenge, showcasing resilience and determination in the face of adversity.
Transition to Policy Work and Decision to Pursue Academia
After completing his coursework, the speaker decided to work with Professor Raghuram Rajan in the Indian government. Despite initially considering a career in policy, his experience in the policy realm reaffirmed his passion for academia. He returned to complete his PhD, prioritizing his commitment to pursuing intellectual ideas and interacting with the real world in various capacities.
Mentorship and Academic Development
The speaker attributes his intellectual and personal growth to the mentorship and guidance he received from his advisor, Stephen Morris. Through interactions with Stephen, he not only learned about economics but also life lessons. Stephen's open door policy, well-read nature, and light touch approach significantly influenced the speaker's development, instilling values of curiosity, resilience, and continuous learning.
Nurturing Mentorship and Building Trust
Mentorship plays a pivotal role in personal and professional development, shaping individuals' paths and fostering trust. The significance of mentors who guide without stifling freedom is highlighted, emphasizing the benefits of open communication and nudges in the right direction.
The Evolution of Intellectual Identity
The podcast episode delves deep into the evolution of personal identity, exploring how experiences abroad impact perspectives on cultural norms, religious beliefs, and intellectual growth. The journey towards self-acceptance and evolving views on societal constructs are intricately discussed.
Navigating Professional Relationships with Intentionality
The discussion shifts towards the intricacies of professional relationships in academia and the workplace, particularly focusing on gender dynamics and the challenges of maintaining boundaries in mentorship roles. The balance between intentional interactions and cultural sensitivities is highlighted as a means to foster inclusive and supportive environments.
The Path to Growth and Development
India's historical growth compared to countries like China and Korea highlights the unique trajectory of each nation's economic development. While traditional narratives suggest a sequence of growth from agriculture to low-skill manufacturing and then high-skill services, India's shift from agriculture to a mix of high-skill manufacturing and services challenges these traditional concepts. The book questions whether such a standard growth path is necessary and proposes that India has already ventured into a unique economic landscape by developing a comparative advantage in high-skill services.
Balancing Manufacturing and Services for Growth
The book suggests that India can leverage a mix of high-skill services and services embedded in manufacturing to drive growth. By emphasizing services directly connected to manufacturing processes, such as coding for advanced technologies or services enhancing manufacturing efficiency, India can capitalize on its existing strengths. This approach illustrates how India's economic landscape has evolved beyond traditional structural transformation narratives, offering new pathways for sustainable growth.
Challenges in State Governance and Economic Policy
The book delves into the challenges posed by an oppressive state structure and a mindset favoring centralized control. Issues such as state intervention through excessive subsidies and oppressive behaviors within government institutions hinder economic progress. Furthermore, the lack of rule of law and constraints on free expression impede effective governance and economic policy. By highlighting these systemic issues, the book underscores the need for a shift towards a more liberal and transparent economic environment to unlock India's growth potential.
Current Challenges in India's Economic Policy
India faces significant challenges in its economic policy. Key points include the need for fundamental changes at the state level, budget constraints, and the role of government in strategic industries like chip manufacturing. The podcast highlights the complex trade-offs involved in industrial policy decisions and advocates for aligning policies with India's comparative advantage for sustainable growth.
Decentralization for Effective Governance
Discussed is the need for greater decentralization in India's governance structures to address challenges effectively. This includes better allocation of funds, functions, and functionaries, highlighting the success of decentralized approaches in health and education outcomes seen in Delhi and Kerala. The podcast emphasizes the importance of local accountability and empowering local governments for improved service delivery.
Early Childhood Nutrition and Policy Implications
The podcast delves into the critical importance of early childhood nutrition for human capital development. It underlines the irreversible impact of nutrition in the first few years of life and highlights the need for focused policy interventions to address malnutrition in India. The discussion stresses the systemic factors contributing to malnutrition and the role of civil society in advocating for effective policy solutions.
28.
Debate on the Role of Civil Society and the State in Public Service Improvement
2min
He is an economist with the soul of a poet. He has studied number theory and is an expert on policy. He has studied Urdu and and dreams in shairi. Rohit Lamba joins Amit Varma in episode 378 of The Seen and the Unseen to discuss economics, politics, society and our human condition. (FOR FULL LINKED SHOW NOTES, GO TO SEENUNSEEN.IN.) Also check out: 1. Rohit Lamba links at Penn State, LinkedIn, Twitter, Google Scholar, YouTube and his own website. 2. Breaking the Mould: Reimagining India's Economic Future -- Raghuram Rajan and Rohit Lamba. 3. The Broken Script -- Swapna Liddle. 4. Swapna Liddle and the Many Shades of Delhi -- Episode 367 of The Seen and the Unseen. 5. Six More Stories That Should Be Films -- Episode 43 of Everything is Everything, which includes a chapter inspired by Swapna Liddle's book. 6. Wanderers, Kings, Merchants: The Story of India through Its Languages — Peggy Mohan. 7. Understanding India Through Its Languages — Episode 232 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Peggy Mohan). 8. The Life and Times of Ira Pande -- Episode 369 of The Seen and the Unseen. 9. The Price of Peace: Money, Democracy, and the Life of John Maynard Keynes -- Zachary D. Carter. 10. Fixing the Knowledge Society -- Episode 24 of Everything is Everything. 11. Robert Sapolsky’s biology lectures on YouTube. 12. Episode of The Seen and the Unseen with Ramachandra Guha: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. 13. The Nurture Assumption — Judith Rich Harris. 14. Deepak VS and the Man Behind His Face -- Episode 373 of The Seen and the Unseen. 15. The Incredible Insights of Timur Kuran -- Episode 349 of The Seen and the Unseen. 16. Private Truths, Public Lies — Timur Kuran. 17. The Gentle Wisdom of Pratap Bhanu Mehta -- Episode 300 of The Seen and the Unseen. 18. 300 Ramayanas — AK Ramanujan. 19. Ramcharitmanas -- Tulsidas. 20. Savarkar and the Making of Hindutva -- Janaki Bakhle. 21. The Intellectual Foundations of Hindutva — Episode 115 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Aakar Patel). 22. Political Ideology in India — Episode 131 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Rahul Verma). 23. Religion and Ideology in Indian Society — Episode 124 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Suyash Rai). 24. Gita Press and the Making of Hindu India — Akshaya Mukul. 25. The Gita Press and Hindu Nationalism — Episode 139 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Akshaya Mukul). 26. India After Gandhi -- Ramachandra Guha. 27. Amitava Kumar Finds the Breath of Life — Episode 265 of The Seen and the Unseen. 28. Aadha Gaon — Rahi Masoom Raza. 29. The Rooted Cosmopolitanism of Sugata Srinivasaraju — Episode 277 of The Seen and the Unseen. 30. Postcard from Kashmir -- Agha Shahid Ali. 31. The Veiled Suite: The Collected Poems -- Agha Shahid Ali. 32. You Can Always Get There From Here -- Mark Strand. 33. Collected Poems — Mark Strand. 34. Variants of chess on chess.com. 35. 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Dynamism with Incommensurate Development: The Distinctive Indian Model -- Rohit Lamba and Arvind Subramanian. 50. List of Soviet and Russian leaders by height. 51. Narendra Modi takes a Great Leap Backwards — Amit Varma on Demonetisation. 52. Beware of the Useful Idiots — Amit Varma. 53. Number Theory. 54. Fermat's Last Theorem. 55. A Beautiful Mind -- Ron Howard. 56. The Life and Work of Ashwini Deshpande — Episode 298 of The Seen and the Unseen. 57. Dilip José Abreu: an elegant and creative economist -- Rohit Lamba. 58. The BJP Before Modi — Episode 202 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Vinay Sitapati). 59. The Forgotten Greatness of PV Narasimha Rao -- Episode 283 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Vinay Sitapati). 60. Ghummakkad Shastra -- Rahul Sankrityayan. 61. Jahnavi and the Cyclotron — Episode 319 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Jahnavi Phalkey). 62. The Looking-Glass Self. 63. Jo Bhi Main -- Song from Rockstar with lyrics by Irshad Kamil. 64. Ranjit Hoskote is Dancing in Chains — Episode 363 of The Seen and the Unseen. 65. Politically correct, passive-aggressive: How Indians in the US struggle to decode corporate speak -- Anahita Mukherji. 66. Lincoln -- Steven Spielberg. 67. The Life and Times of Montek Singh Ahluwalia — Episode 285 of The Seen and the Unseen. 68. The Economics and Politics of Vaccines — Episode 223 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Ajay Shah). 69. In Service of the Republic — Vijay Kelkar & Ajay Shah. 70. The Semiconductor Wars — Episode 358 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Pranay Kotasthane & Abhiram Manchi). 71. The Smile Curve. 72. Urban Governance in India — Episode 31 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Shruti Rajagopalan). 73. We Are Fighting Two Disasters: Covid-19 and the Indian State — Amit Varma. 74. The Child and the State in India -- Myron Weiner. 75. Where India Goes -- Diane Coffey and Deam Spears. 76. What's Wrong With Indian Agriculture? -- Episode 18 of Everything is Everything. 77. South India Would Like to Have a Word — Episode 320 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Nilakantan RS). 78. South vs North: India’s Great Divide — Nilakantan RS. 79. Episodes of The Seen and the Unseen with Ashwin Mahesh: 1, 2, 3. 80. Maximum City -- Suketu Mehta. 81. Disgrace -- JM Coetzee. 82. Snow -- Pamuk. 83. Bahut Door, Kitna Door Hota Hai -- Manav Kaul. 84. Shakkar Ke Paanch Dane -- Manav Kaul.. 85. Poems: 1962–2020 -- Louise Glück. 86. Mahabharata. 87. राम की शक्ति-पूजा -- सूर्यकांत त्रिपाठी निराला. 88. Iqbal and Ahmad Faraz on Rekhta. 89. Ranjish Hi Sahi -- Ahmad Faraz. 90. Zindagi Se Yahi Gila Hai Mujhe -- Ahmad Faraz. 91. AR Rahman on Wikipedia and Spotify. This episode is sponsored by CTQ Compounds. Check out The Daily Reader and FutureStack. Use the code UNSEEN for Rs 2500 off. Amit’s newsletter is explosively active again. Subscribe right away to The India Uncut Newsletter! It’s free! Amit Varma and Ajay Shah have launched a new video podcast. Check out Everything is Everything on YouTube. Check out Amit’s online course, The Art of Clear Writing. Episode art: ‘Pick a Tree' by Simahina.
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highlights
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