Arvin Ganesan, CEO of Fourth Power, previously worked in the U.S. Senate, EPA, and Apple. He dives into the innovative thermal energy storage system using heated liquid tin. This technology offers rapid energy conversion and can bridge gaps in energy supply for renewables. Arvin discusses the challenges of current storage methods, the advantages of their approach over lithium-ion batteries, and the potential for revolutionizing electricity grids. He also shares insights on funding and the competitive landscape in climate technology.
Fourth Power's innovative thermal energy storage system allows for both short and long-duration energy solutions to enhance grid reliability.
Arvin Ganesan's diverse career experiences shape Fourth Power's strategic approach to integrating renewable energy and improving energy storage cost-effectiveness.
Deep dives
Innovative Thermal Energy Storage Solution
Fourth Power is focusing on creating a flexible and efficient thermal energy storage system that can store energy in the form of heat and convert it back to electricity when needed. This system aims to address the dual challenges of both short-duration energy storage for 5 to 10 hours and long-duration storage that can last over 100 hours, with the capability to release power rapidly. The architecture consists of circulating molten tin around carbon blocks, where heat is stored and later transformed back into electricity using thermal photovoltaics. Such a model provides a potentially lower-cost alternative to traditional lithium-ion batteries, aiming to decarbonize the grid by enhancing the capacity for renewables integration.
Arvind Gannison's Diverse Career Path
Arvind Gannison's career trajectory has significantly shaped his insights into the energy sector, transitioning from a bond trader to pivotal roles in sustainable investing, the U.S. Senate, and the Environmental Protection Agency. His tenure included crucial moments during the shift from coal-dominated energy to a more competitive landscape for renewables, which informs his current perspectives on energy storage solutions. Before joining Fourth Power as CEO, he worked with Apple, where he led global energy policy efforts, particularly around the integration of renewable energy into its supply chain. Gannison's diverse experiences underscore a commitment to bridging policy, technology, and business in the clean energy transition.
Unique Technology and Market Positioning
Fourth Power poses a distinct approach to energy storage by utilizing thermal energy, harnessing heat derived from electricity, which contrasts with more conventional forms like lithium-ion batteries or pumped hydro. The company aims for economies of scale by designing systems that can be built cheaply and efficiently, using abundant materials like graphite and liquid tin. Gannison stresses that as electricity demand grows with the shift towards renewables, new technologies like theirs are essential for providing a scalable and cost-effective storage solution that can meet future grid demands. This positioning reflects an understanding of the increasing variability and complexity of electricity grids, fueled by growing renewable integration.
Challenges and Solutions in the Clean Energy Transition
The energy market is undergoing significant transformations, with electric utilities needing to adapt to new demands imposed by increasing amounts of variable renewable resources. Gannison highlights that utilities are often constrained by financial models that prioritize capital-intensive solutions, making affordable storage like Fourth Power's crucial for reliability and cost-effectiveness. Moreover, as the grid changes, technologies need to be flexible and scalable, allowing utilities to adjust their energy solutions in response to fluctuating market demands. Fourth Power’s ability to provide long-duration storage that supports new electricity generation models is pivotal for the success of future energy infrastructure.
Arvin Ganesan is the CEO of Fourth Power, which is developing a flexible-duration thermal energy system designed to meet the needs of an electrical grid increasingly powered by renewables. Their system heats liquid tin to extremely high temperatures, circulates it through carbon blocks for heat storage, and converts that heat back to electricity on demand via thermal photovoltaics. The technology aims to address both short-duration energy storage (5–10 hours) and long-duration needs (100 hours or more), with the ability to discharge power within seconds.
At the end of last year, Fourth Power raised a Series A led by DCVC, with participation from Breakthrough Energy Ventures. Arvin’s fascinating career includes time in the U.S. Senate as a senior policy advisor to the late Senator Frank Lautenberg, over five years at the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, and nearly six years at Apple as the head of global energy and environmental policy.
In this episode, we explore Arvin's career path, his decision to join Fourth Power, and why the company’s work matters for the future of energy storage.
In this episode, we cover:
[1:49] Arvin's career journey: From the EPA to Apple and beyond
[8:13] Why Arvin chose to become CEO of Fourth Power
[10:29] Focusing on electricity storage over industrial heat
[12:06] Fourth Power’s thermal energy storage system explained
[17:11] How Fourth Power uses photovoltaics for efficient energy conversion
[20:36] Trade-offs between Fourth Power's technology and lithium-ion batteries
[25:03] Co-location strategies and powering renewable energy
[28:21] Collaborating with utilities to meet grid demands
[31:09] Fourth Power’s milestones and current progress
[32:57] Arvin’s transition to a CEO role and what he’s learning
[34:59] Market optimism and the potential impact of Fourth Power’s solution