Munk Dialogue with Dmitri Trenin: when nuclear war becomes inevitable
Aug 27, 2024
auto_awesome
Dmitri Trenin, a seasoned expert on Russian foreign policy and international relations, joins the conversation to analyze the escalating tensions in the Russia-Ukraine conflict. He warns that Western misinterpretations of Putin's silence could lead to catastrophic miscalculations. The discussion highlights the potential for nuclear escalation, examining how military strategies could unexpectedly collide. Trenin also reflects on Russia's national identity in this crisis and the psychological effects on its people, emphasizing the critical need for nuanced dialogue.
The U.S. increasing military support for Ukraine, including advanced weaponry, risks provoking a more aggressive Russian response and escalation toward nuclear confrontation.
Dmitri Trenin highlights the critical divergence in military doctrines, with Russia perceiving any attack on its forces as an existential threat, increasing nuclear tensions.
Deep dives
Understanding the Ukraine Conflict's Escalation
The ongoing war between Russia and Ukraine has reached a critical point, particularly with the U.S. signaling a willingness to supply Ukraine with advanced weaponry, including long-range cruise missiles. This escalation raises concerns about a potential direct conflict between Russia and NATO, particularly as both sides have crossed previously set 'red lines' in military support and operations. The incursion into Russian territory has shifted public perception and poses a challenge to Russian leadership, which may now feel compelled to respond more aggressively. Dmitry Trenin warns that this situation could lead to a larger confrontation, escalating to the possibility of nuclear engagement if not carefully managed.
Public Sentiment in Russia Post-Incursion
In light of the recent Kursk offensive, Russian public sentiment appears mixed but is largely marked by a growing desensitization to war. The incursion shocked many, as it marked the first significant foreign invasion of Russian territory since World War II, prompting feelings of vulnerability among citizens. However, the Russian populace has gradually adapted to the wartime mentality, with little to no panic observed. While there is criticism directed at local authorities for their lack of preparedness, President Putin’s popularity remains intact, as citizens expect a decisive response to the foreign threat.
Implications of Military Escalation
The U.S. strategy of incrementally increasing military aid to Ukraine presents significant risks, as it could provoke Russia into more aggressive actions. Trenin points out that as the West continues to escalate its involvement, often dismissing the implications of crossing red lines, it sends a message of weakness or indecisiveness. The potential deployment of advanced aircraft and missiles could challenge Russian territorial claims and elicit a harsh response. This dangerous game of escalation might inadvertently lead to a nuclear confrontation, as Russia may view any attack on its forces as an existential threat.
The Concept of Nuclear Deterrence and Risk
The discussion around nuclear deterrence highlights a fundamental divergence between Russian and Western military doctrines, particularly regarding the use of nuclear weapons in response to perceived threats. Trenin emphasizes that Russia’s doctrine allows for nuclear responses if its critical infrastructures are targeted, indicating significant potential for escalation amid conventional conflicts. Should Ukraine employ advanced weaponry, Russia is likely to retaliate against NATO bases, which could trigger a larger military confrontation. The historical context of war perceptions in Russia plays a crucial role, as it continues to frame its engagement as a patriotic struggle against Western aggression.
While the war between Russia and Ukraine drags into its third year and out of the front pages of newspapers, some surprising developments in recent months are giving experts new cause for concern. The US, which has already supplied over fifty billion dollars worth of military aid and weapons to Kiev, has signaled that it is open to sending long-range cruise missiles to enhance the capabilities of Ukraine’s newly acquired F-16 fighter jets. Meanwhile, Ukraine’s army caught Russia off guard this summer with a surprise incursion into the western Russian territory of Kursk. Putin’s response so far has been more muted than expected.
Our guest on this Munk Dialogue is sounding the alarm. Dmitri Trenin, a member of Russia’s Foreign and Defense Policy Council, is warning western leaders not to confuse Putin’s silence with tolerance. On the contrary, he argues: we are on a path of direct collision between two superpowers who are unwilling to back down. Once two many Russian red lines are crossed, the use of nuclear weapons will be inevitable.
The host of the Munk Debates podcast is Rudyard Griffiths
To support civil and substantive debate on the big questions of the day, consider becoming a Munk Member at https://munkdebates.com/membership
Members receive access to our 15+ year library of great debates in HD video, a free Munk Debates book, and ticketing privileges at our live events.
This podcast is a project of the Munk Debates, a Canadian charitable organization dedicated to fostering civil and substantive public dialogue - https://munkdebates.com/
Executive Producer: Ricki Gurwitz
Editor: Kieran Lynch
Get the Snipd podcast app
Unlock the knowledge in podcasts with the podcast player of the future.
AI-powered podcast player
Listen to all your favourite podcasts with AI-powered features
Discover highlights
Listen to the best highlights from the podcasts you love and dive into the full episode
Save any moment
Hear something you like? Tap your headphones to save it with AI-generated key takeaways
Share & Export
Send highlights to Twitter, WhatsApp or export them to Notion, Readwise & more
AI-powered podcast player
Listen to all your favourite podcasts with AI-powered features
Discover highlights
Listen to the best highlights from the podcasts you love and dive into the full episode