Neil Theise, a pioneer in adult stem cell research and pathology, discusses complexity theory, stem cell regeneration, and the politicization of stem cell science. He explores the interconnectedness of body and identity through Zen practice, merging scientific and spiritual perspectives. The conversation delves into spiritual awakening, quantum realities, consciousness, and the role of intuition in understanding complex systems. Neil also explores unconscious rules in nature, universal principles, and the limitations of language in perceiving the universe.
Life emerges from interactions at different scales showcasing complexity theory.
Brain activities correlate with consciousness but don't explain its nature.
Incorporating diverse perspectives is vital to understand consciousness and human experiences.
Science and spirituality converge to explore non-dual awareness and interconnectedness of existence.
Deep dives
The Complexity Theory and Life's Formation
Complexity theory is elucidated, emphasizing that life emerges from interactions at various scales, from cells to ecosystems. Stem cells are discussed as pivotal in tissues' rejuvenation, showcasing the intricate dynamics of living systems that cannot be simplified to machine-like processes.
Consciousness and Brain Correlation
The hard problem of consciousness is debated, highlighting how brain activities correlate with conscious experiences but do not explain the nature of consciousness itself. The limitations of neuroscientific approaches are explored, indicating a gap in understanding the essence of conscious awareness.
Multiple Perspectives on Reality and Consciousness
The conversation delves into philosophical stances on consciousness, ranging from materialist views to panpsychism and idealism. The necessity of incorporating diverse perspectives to grasp the complexity of human experiences and contemplative practices is underlined.
Integration of Scientific and Spiritual Realms
The integration of scientific insights with spiritual wisdom is emphasized, portraying an evolving understanding where science and spirituality converge. The exploration of non-dual awareness, quantum phenomena, and the intrinsic interconnectedness of all existence is highlighted as key to comprehending reality.
Complexity of Mathematics and Reality
The episode delves into the intricacies of mathematics and reality, highlighting the work of a mathematician from the Vienna Circle who challenged the belief that mathematics could explain everything. He introduced the concept that a complete mathematical system would contradict itself, rendering it inconsistent and incapable of explaining reality. This notion challenges the idea that mathematics and empirical science alone can provide a complete understanding of existence.
Decidability and Turing Machines
The discussion extends to the concept of decidability and Turing machines, emphasizing the role of hypothetical models like the universal Turing machine in exploring the completeness and consistency of systems. It is explained that if a system is completely consistent, there will always be statements that are true but unprovable within the system, highlighting the limitations of solely relying on mathematics to explain complex phenomena.
Complex Systems and Emergent Structures
The episode further explores the principles governing complexity in systems, emphasizing diversity, feedback mechanisms, local interactions, and randomness as key factors shaping emergent structures. By illustrating how these principles operate at different levels, from ant colonies to human societies, the episode underscores the interconnectedness of all levels of existence and the intricate dynamics that lead to the formation of complex systems.
Neil Theise is a professor of pathology at the NYU Grossman School of Medicine. Through his scientific research, he has been a pioneer of adult stem cell plasticity and the anatomy of the human interstitium. Dr. Theise’s studies in complexity theory have led to interdisciplinary collaborations in fields such as integrative medicine, consciousness studies, and science-religion dialogue. He is a senior Zen student at the Village Zendo in NYC. His life long Jewish practice has involved both traditional observances and formal academic study. In recent years, (to his surprise) he has also undergone shamanic initiation.
Books:
General Audience:
Notes on Complexity: A Scientific Theory of Connection, Consciousness, and Being
Of academic interest:
Awakening: Exploring Spirituality, Emergent Creativity, and Reconciliation
Transforming: Applying Spirituality, Emergent Creativity, and Reconciliation
Website: neiltheiseofficial.com
Discussion of this interview in the BatGap Community Facebook Group
Summary and transcript of this interview.
Interview recorded March 9, 2024
YouTube Video Chapters:
00:00:00 - Introduction to Buddha at the Gas Pump
00:04:25 - Complexity Theory and the study of life
00:08:34 - Dynamic Healing of the GI Tract
00:12:40 - Artificial Life and Complexity Theory
00:17:26 - Awakening through the Koan "Mu"
00:22:41 - The Fascinating Idea of Biocentrism and Organizing Complexity
00:25:45 - Discovering Complexity Theory
00:28:37 - The Illusion of Materiality and the Nature of Pure Awareness
00:33:37 - The Non-dual Fundamental Awareness
00:37:38 - Complementarity in Quantum Physics and Beyond
00:42:36 - The Quantum Field of the Body
00:46:29 - Direct experiences of quantum level reality
00:49:14 - The True Nature of Conscious Reality
00:53:25 - The Illusion of Reality
00:56:56 - The Mechanism of Human Consciousness
01:01:23 - Challenging Empirical Science and Promissory Materialism
01:04:51 - The Intimacy of Subject and Object in Quantum Science
01:08:53 - The Limitations of Mathematics and Empirical Science
01:13:30 - Gödel and Turing's Implications for Mystical Exploration and Consciousness
01:17:33 - Shifting Paradigms and the Nature of Consciousness
01:21:20 - Self-Organization and Complexity in the Universe
01:24:44 - Negative and Positive Feedback Loops
01:29:02 - The Adjacent Possibles and Creativity
01:32:16 - The Subtle Dimensions of Living Beings and the Universe
01:35:26 - Language Limitations and Perspective
01:39:02 - Awakening through Traumatic Experiences
01:42:35 - Wondering about Luck and the Beloved Name
01:45:28 - The Universe's Construction and Spiritual Practices
01:48:30 - The Divine Feminine and Unconditional Love
01:52:57 - The Nature of Reality and True Compassion
01:55:56 - Conclusion
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