Carlo Rovelli and Philip Pullman on the Science and Stories That Transform Our World
May 28, 2021
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Join Carlo Rovelli, a bestselling theoretical physicist, and Philip Pullman, the award-winning author of His Dark Materials, as they weave together science and storytelling. Rovelli shares the transformative ideas stemming from Heisenberg's work on quantum theory, discussing its implications for our understanding of reality and consciousness. They explore the interconnectedness of all things and reflect on how solitude inspires creativity. The duo emphasizes the role of inquiry in shaping narratives and the legacy of both science and literature.
Carlo Rovelli explains that quantum mechanics reveals reality as relational, challenging our understanding of existence and identity.
Philip Pullman connects literature and science, illustrating how both disciplines utilize imagination to explore complex realities and relationships.
The conversation emphasizes the enriching role of philosophical and artistic influences in scientific exploration, fostering creativity alongside rational inquiry.
Deep dives
The Power of World-Making in Science and Literature
Both Carlo Rovelli and Philip Pullman explore the concept of world-making, emphasizing the importance of imagination in understanding our reality. Rovelli posits that science serves not only to decode the mechanisms behind nature but fundamentally alters our worldview, a process evident in historical scientific revolutions that have reshaped human understanding. He further draws parallels between scientific discovery and literary creation, suggesting that both disciplines rely on the ability to envision new realms of existence. This shared focus on world-making emphasizes the interconnectedness of literature and science, where both aim to articulate the complexities of human experience.
Heisenberg's Insight and its Philosophical Implications
The discussion highlights Werner Heisenberg's pivotal work in quantum mechanics, initiated on the island of Helgoland, where he developed foundational ideas that shifting our understanding of reality. Rovelli asserts that Heisenberg's revelation focused on the relational nature of existence, arguing that objects attain properties only through interactions with others. This contrasts sharply with classical views of isolated entities possessing inherent qualities, suggesting a more fluid and interconnected understanding of matter. The implications extend beyond physics, resonating with philosophical themes and prompting deeper inquiries into the nature of consciousness and existence.
Literature as a Reflection of Quantum Theory
Philip Pullman articulates his long-standing interest in quantum physics, linking it to the themes explored in his literary works. He appreciates how Rovelli’s writings offer insights into the complexity and ambiguity inherent in quantum concepts, particularly through his expressive use of language. Pullman reflects on the capacity of literature to explore multiple realities and connections, akin to quantum theory's acknowledgment of non-linear relationships between entities. This connection between science and literature fosters deeper appreciation for both disciplines as they seek to illuminate the intricacies of existence.
The Role of Philosophy and Artistic Expression in Scientific Thought
Rovelli stresses that scientific exploration is deeply enriched by philosophical and artistic influences, citing Heisenberg's engagement with literature and poetry during his groundbreaking work. The notion that a scientific mind thrives on a broad cultural education elicits a synergy between creativity and rationality, allowing scientists to reinterpret existing ideas and imagine new possibilities. The conversation highlights how literature and philosophy provide metaphors that enable a nuanced understanding of complex scientific ideas like quantum mechanics. This intersection of ideas illustrates that scientific inquiry is not an isolated practice but rather a collaborative effort drawing from diverse intellectual traditions.
Embracing Uncertainty and Interconnectedness in Science and Life
Both speakers delve into the essence of uncertainty in scientific inquiry and existence, asserting that acknowledging this uncertainty paves the way for creativity and exploration. Rovelli argues that the quantum perspective redefines how we perceive individual identity, suggesting that we are not static entities but rather a web of relationships and interactions. Pullman concurs, emphasizing that meaning emerges from a network of associations, both in literature and in life. This shared sentiment reveals a profound understanding that recognizing the complexity of connections can lead to richer insights in both scientific and artistic endeavors.
Carlo Rovelli is the internationally bestselling theoretical physicist whose many fans include Benedict Cumberbatch, Antony Gormley, Neil Gaiman and Lily Cole. In May 2021 he came to Intelligence Squared to talk about the themes of his new book Helgoland, in which he takes us back to the birth of a revolutionary idea that has reshaped the whole of science and our very conception of the world.
Rovelli told the story of the brilliant young Werner Heisenberg who, suffering from hay fever, retreated to the treeless island of Helgoland in the North Sea where he began to glimpse a world in which nothing exists until it interacts with something else, upending our all-too-solid conception of reality. This is the world of quantum theory.
Now a century on from Heisenberg’s extraordinary insight, Rovelli has done what he dared not do before – to connect quantum theory with a panoply of philosophical ideas, including Buddhist thought, the problem of consciousness and even the discussions between Lenin and Bogdanov at the time of the Russian revolution. He explained that the way we interpret this insight has profound implications for our culture and philosophy. As he says, ‘Our ‘I’ is made of relations, as is our society, our cultural, spiritual and political life… It is time to take this theory fully on board, for its nature to be discussed beyond the restricted circles of theoretical physicists and philosophers, to deposit its distilled honey, so sweet and a little intoxicating, into the whole of contemporary culture.’
Rovelli was in conversation with Philip Pullman, author of the fantasy trilogy His Dark Materials, and named by The Times as one of the 50 greatest British writers since 1945. These two master storytellers discussed how it is only through our imaginations that we can truly understand the world we live in.
To buy the book click here: https://www.primrosehillbooks.com/product/helgoland-carlo-rovelli/
