The good news is that things have gotten better. 

A few decades ago, churches weren’t talking about design or brand or project management or technology.

The bad news? Many churches are doing those things now, but overall our outcomes are not better. Many churches are still in decline, and all this cool stuff we're creating is not putting the mission and vision in action or within reach. 

In this episode, Tony and Amy interview Kem Meyer, author of Less Chaos. Less Noise., about how we can reframe our understanding of brand and communications for this decade. Kem also shares a practical tool to help you get started. 

For the full episode transcript, links mentioned during the show, and to download the Leader Conversation Guide, visit this episode's Show Notes at theunstuckgroup.com/episode103.

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