In this episode I’m joined by some of the team at CUMIN – the contemporary urban music for inclusion network: Dr Pete Dale, Professor Pam Burnard, and Dr Raphael Travis from the universities of York, Cambridge and Texas State University. The network is for anyone working through music with young people in genres like hip-hop, grime, EDM, house and more. We discuss the challenges of measuring impact, the need for multiple and participant-led methods in evaluation. We also discuss the book 'Music for Inclusion and Healing in Schools and Beyond'.