Episode #139 - David Allan On Mindset Secrets To Trump Your Fears

Episode 140:

John McIntyre: It’s John McIntyre the Auto Responder Guy here with David Allan. David was on the podcast I think a couple weeks ago talking about magic and how he sort of went traveling became a digital nomad and you know, taught himself how to do magic tricks , became a street magician and then use that to then get into copywriting and told his story of you know Gary Halbert, and a bunch of things like that. So we’re not going to get into the story today but I wanted to get Dave back just to talk about a couple different things – and part of the reason for that is that you might you may have noticed that I haven’t been doing , releasing a lot of podcast lately in the last few months, and that’s just because I’ve been focused elsewhere. So what I thought was I get someone really awesome like Dave to come on and ’cause you know who’s really passionate about the podcast he wants to sort of keep it going basically and David came – so hear we are – we’re going to do a few interviews where it’s me and him and eventually he’ll probably start doing some interviews on his own – I have a good feeling about that so…fingers crossed.

Dave Allan: Yeah , fingers crossed. It’s going good so far and we get along good of course, John is a great guy and Yeah I’m just happy to be here to help and it’s a good opportunity.

John McIntyre: Cool cool. It’s good to have you. Now, um, we’ve got a few different things we’re going to talk about and we’re going to split these up into different episodes. First thing is being that it’s so pertinent and so timely right now let’s talk about Donald trump and the topic or the idea I’ve got written down is Donald Trump’s guide to winning friends and influencing people who play on the old book. So that just to put some things in context I have barely followed this- not that I don’t care about I just know that if I do start reading about it all probably spend all day every day learning about Donald Trump and reading about getting mad or getting in arguments or whatever. So I’ve avoided it and just chosen to sort of get the updates from other people who much more into it which it sounds like you’ve been because you’re in the States right now right you probably get this a lot more you’re much more familiar with it.

David Allan: Well I didn’t really like go out of my way to like study – I’ve been familiar, I’ve read his book Ar of the Deal you know many years ago and he’s always sort of fascinating character you know he really had some extremely interesting things happen in his business career and his ability to bounce back from his own mistakes and his bankruptcies which was always sort of intriguing to me and so when he started running for president you know it seemed pretty preposterous to a lot of people – but you know having the prior successes that he did have you know I actually bet a friend of mine some money that he would win, way back at the very beginning. So – and the reason I did that is because I I really sort of understood quickly I think that although I may have not agreed with what he was saying specifically, the way he was going about campaigning was essentially the way you do good marketing. And so I thought he was really taking advantage – and he’s just a master at that kind of stuff you know he’s obviously he’s got his name everywhere on buildings, he’s built all these things the people know who he is. He is a celebrity, so he knows how to get his name out there and so I think there’s a number of strategies where you don’t have to necessarily agree with Donald Trump you have to agree with what he said you don’t have to take in any of the content in his messages – but how he delivered stuff and how he went about finding the people that would elect him, And how’s that turned out – which was successfully. It’s a lot of important marketing lessons I think to people out there especially for a freelance copywriter to looking to find their certain niche and their clientele it could be very helpful.
John McIntyre: Right. So I think this has an interesting and worth making that distinction that you know regardless of whether you like the guy or agree with him which is probably not particularly relevant here – we just want to talk about what – I mean he’s a guy, who’s not a pol – not really a politician you know he’s actually a billionaire, he is a businessman, he is an entrepreneur you know he is a deal maker and and yet he managed to beat out, you know probably more experienced politicians – people who may have been you know more eligible or whatever you want to call them and so he’s done something you know sort of beaten the odds you might say in quite an interesting way, so what’s interesting is like I think there’s a lot of articles out there that sort of deconstruct some of you know the strategies he used, the tips and tricks that – maybe it would be interesting to talk about like the sort of the mindset he has, so you can because I think that’s probably where people fall down and search the internet that you know how to do X.Y.Z. how to write a sales page for example. What is harder is how to develop the right… I guess attitude of mindset belief system that allows you to execute upon that. Like finding a system you know going in the gym It starts pretty easy as far as your you get in the car or bike., whatever, go to the gym, train and come home. But a lot of who find it really hard to get off the couch and do that and you know whether it’s the self -image or something like that something in their brain is not you know is making it just hard for them to go and execute on that. So they will be what will be really interesting instead of talking about like all his five things Donald Trump did which you know you can get from all over the place. Maybe just tell you we have a bit of a philosophical conversation about like where how does how does he think as a whole and how it could one adopt the same style of thinking and you know strategizing in life in general and you can apply that to copywriting, or you can apply it to anything else how does that sound?

David Allan: That’s sounds great.

John McIntyre: So what do you think? I mean, you sound like you know more about this than I do and tell me about Donald Trump in the context of this politics not so much what he necessarily did, but how he thinks?

David Allan: Well it seems to me, having never met Donald Trump personally – which is a shame because I would be able to speak more with a more definitive nature perhaps, but from what I have seen and read and heard and witnessed in this most recent campaign is that clearly Donald Trump you know thinks a lot of himself. And a lot of people you know they take that arrogance, other people say you just should may confident, you know depends on your perspective. The part of the problem with getting freelance clientele, especially when you’re in the beginning is you don’t really believe in yourself. A lot of people have trouble I think we spoke to this very briefly on the last episode with lot people have this deserving issue where they don’t feel like they paid their dues and they don’t feel you know enough dues perhaps in some cases, people go on for years doing that and never get anywhere and so Donald Trump , I don’t think that he ever had that problem. You know from a very small you know for a very sort of you know, I hate to say a small beginning because I think his dad set him up an early stages with a lot of money to start his career but you know he never doubted his decision making. It reminds me very much of there’s a movie which people may have seen and this may mean that you get more clarity I think the movie is called “U571”, and it’s a submarine movie about World War two and capturing of the enigma decoding device that the Germans were using to communicate. And in that thing you know all all heck fire breaks loose you know they end up on a German – Americans end up on a German submarine that they have to commandeer because their submarine is sunk , the Captain is killed and so the second in command guy is that the captain, and when the left over people who are still alive. They ask him they look to him for the leadership because that is the captain and he doesn’t have an answet. So one of the other senior officers pulls him aside d says you have to have an answer whether you have one or not. Because that is a submarine captain. So for people out there who are doing freelancing. This kind of this idea of like fake it to make it , you know I’m not saying fake everything, but if you don’t have confidence in what you’re doing you have to believe in yourself first before other people can believe in you. It’s like an old N.L.P. thing to talk about go first is that you know if you don’t you don’t think you can do this kind of stuff and you’re not going to be able to find those clients who really want to invest in you because that just comes – it comes off like stink on a monkey. That you don’t believe yourself, so Donald Trump never had that problem I don’t think. I‘m sure father believed in him, gave him the money and he’s believed in himself ever since to like a dizzying degree.

John McIntyre: What’s interesting is I see you bring up like just mention that I spoke to Anders Erickson this week which is the leading scientist on you know, elite performance and how to learn anything really and I maybe we’ll talk about story in a future sort of you know where an interview came from and it won’t be on the podcast unfortunately, but fascinating guy. One of the things he mentioned because after the interview sent me a chapter to a book that hasn’t been published yet and in this chapter he explains that when you look at sports people like you know people training for the Olympics or to be you know elite musicians like a vile – you know a violin soloist or something like that they’ve actually found – and you can back up this point with the research that you’ve got to be able to do you know apply what’s called deliberate practice which is very focused practice, you know exercises that target your weaknesses, which is you know generally not fun. It’s quite uncomfortable because it’s hard. But the thing they’ve noticed is that when you survey the you know the competitive landscape in whatever field you’re in and you kind of look at you know where other people are do have a chance to beat them. Apparently if you don’t believe that you can beat them at some point in the future or at least reach their level, you are I don’t know how much more maybe you’re a lot more likely to give up and therefore not execute, so part of part of doing you know you know sort of reaching whatever that you know the goal is whether it’s in a freelance copywriting or building a huge business of whatever it is you have to believe that it’s possible – or your brain literally there must be some way the brain works that unless you can – whether you believe it because you know just on faith or whether you’ve figured out is and I think in most case unless you want to be like a basketball player and you’re really short or really old and obviously that’s not going to happen – most things – the research tends to show that if you’re able to invest the time in the deliberate practice in certain types of practice, you can become a master of anything and it does take a lot of time. So if you start with that assumption then then you can believe that let’s say with copywriting instead of kind of like well I’m not going to get terribly if I can make it because I will know it’s not about that it’s not it’s not like this unequivocal unequivocal you can’t do it or I can’t do it. It’s more a case of well maybe I can do right now, but if I apply a certain amount of time and energy in this area – whether it’s learning copywriting itself , writing out sales letters by hand or buying and reading books or whether it’s going to meet ups, you might say or I will you know maybe I can’t you know just click my fingers and add up but if I go to you know one meet up a week for the next year. Something’s probably going to happen and you going to get data through that process that’s going to enable you to improve the way you engage in those you know interactions, and so you really it’s just interesting that I found that the research really backs up this idea that you have to believe that it’s possible otherwise you just won’t even try.

David Allan: Yeah you know I think that’s a very interesting point you know if you’re talking about someone like a Donald Trump that he probably believed that very you know I mean I don’t know but I’m assuming he believed that very easily probably because his dad was quite successful too and so forth and he was sort of surrounded by that kind of stuff as a result he probably believed the extremely possible to rise to those levels and some of the deals he made early on in this career which were you know sort of landmark deals really drove that home that total he could do anything. Years ago I remembered he said he was you know he would you know think about running for president, almost jokingly, but until I’m sure in the back of his mind somewhere he probably had considered it… you know

John McIntyre: Right. So what I think of think you them is this to stay on topic can going to will look if I was listening to this and I was getting started or if I was sort of in the throes of building a business and maybe struggling a bit. I’ll be like well, that’s great, that’s great that I have to believe that math to be confident but the fact is I’m not. You know when I wake up in the morning I’m depressed and when I go to these meet ups, I’m nervous like I’m a nervous wreck I can’t you know I just sort of I can’t express myself like I’m just terrible at this, so like yeah it’s great if you like that If you’re Donald Trump and you dad gives you millions of dollars and you’re brought up to believe in yourself. What if you don’t? What if you know what if you lack confidence? What if you are on nervous? How does one go and develop – that’s really the key question is if you can develop that, then you have enough conference, you know, to figure out, you know, the tactical things you need to do to get there, but if you can’t develop this belief in the first place then you know you’re going to go into that other stuff, so it’s sort of like how do you I mean how do you personally because you’ve been a street magician, I’d be pretty scared and terrified and most people would be going to like a random shopping mall, setting up a little magic table and doing some tricks and stuff, so like I’m sure you’ve got some interesting insights on how the hell one develops this sort of self-belief.

David Allan: Yeah you know it’s an interesting thing because I think for a lot of it, and this might not help anybody but for in terms of where I got that from or the belief that I could do whatever it is I set out to do I think I got a basically from my father. My father was very extroverted and sort of a man about town and when I grew up and we lived in a small town of about ten thousand people and everybody knew him, and so I think a lot of my personality came from mimicking his personality as I grew up, and so I he had an actual confidence about him and probably through watching him – I sort of saw how people, how he was and how people reacted to how it was. So if you’re looking for people I mean you may not want to model for specifically Donald Trump perhaps but if you look at people who are very successful, they have a very easy way about them you know they’re not the necessarily the flashiest person or whatever they’re often the people who are just very calm and composed and just go about it and don’t think it’s a big deal, everything’s a big deal. You know some of the richest people I met are very you know in terms of actual success are very down to earth and don’t talk a whole lot about what they’re up to you know they just kind of think it’s just another thing, they don’t make a big deal out of it now for I have seen other entrepreneurs don’t like give you a good example people who may want to look this up to show notes there’s a lady by the name of Kat Loterzo and I interviewed her for my podcast a couple months ago and she’s doing very well for herself. What she does respect to be something more practical, I’ve never done this myself but it seems to work very well for her and the people that want her students. Is she does the daily affirmation thing where she journals and she writes down where she wants to be you know actually reflects on that every day and I’ve heard other people in other fields beside from you know making money like sports and other things to to do the very same thing and so that may be something that people want to look into because she talked about that a lot of our podcast actually write down exactly how much money she wanted to make it and so for and you know what after a couple years of doing that she’s exactly at that level.

John McIntyre: Right.

David Allan: So its feel weird to you know that’s kind of almost like a woo-woo type thing and I’m not usually on that wavelength but it’s undoubtedly worked in her case and that may be something that resonates with some of the people out there I would say you know for me personally I’ve gone about sort of getting into different things is to sort a small chunk it and move on just barely better as you’re going along you know like for me I started with email so I did start by writing long sales pages or doing videos or you know any kind of stuff I started writing emails and I learned that from Matt Furey. So I wrote you know those like daily mails , that’s how I got into copywriting and that’s kind of an interesting when you get into it because you know you’re taught like a conversational tone and as you get more, you know, better that is exactly how you write those other other things, so it has a direct correlation and you became more confident and were able to write those and so when it came to write the longer things are things are more robust or different, in different media than it was a lot easier because you know with your confidence was higher that point when I was any, so you got a look at those maybe small wins too it doesn’t have to be a hit a home run you know for for Agora or somebody and everything goes you know and I don’t ever – thinking about copywriting for myself and freelance copywriting – I never aspired to be like John Carlton or somebody you know it was always like I just wanted to learn how to copywrite, so I could be successful for myself, you know, so maybe you know there are people out there truly do want to be the next John Carlton or Gary Halbert, some of these big name copywriters that write for some of the most high-end direct mailers and so forth but for me it was something – another tool or skill and so you know you look at it look around at some people and maybe this is helpful for people you know I look I’ve learned throughout my life of course like how to do magic – And how to do street magic – Which was another set of skills, how to play the guitar a bit – Various things and all those cases I usually looked around the people who were doing it and thought to myself, perhaps even arrogantly, if that person can do it surely I can. You can, so you know had a maybe a little believe myself that I was smart enough to get the job done and I think if you honestly look at them a lot of people who listen to this – you can do this. This is not you know maybe needs to have the mystique wiped away a little bit. If other people like John and myself and other people you’ve heard on the show can do this kind of stuff? Surely you can do it too. I, for one, believe in them, even if nobody else does.

John McIntyre: I mean the thing to keep in mind as I like and the woo-woo stuff’s interesting image that is some of the things we would like some of the affirmation might seem a bit woo-woo. You know it’s interesting lately I’ve been reading about – great book called Sapiens and the sequel Homo Deus – that how much you use both really really fascinating to sort of what’s coming in the future with now artificial intelligence in all them. Basically the current scientific understanding the way the brain works is that it’s a collection of algorithms, it’s basically a really really complex computer and so when you when you say like a person says well I can’t do something you can look at that is a software problem you’ve basically got a you know a computer virus in the brain that saying that you can’t do it because the reality is if you look at the data behind why people are good at guitar, good at magic, good at anything – The data pretty much unequivocally says that like I said before if you can invest the time in proper – let’s call deliberate practice into into doing it you can do it, you can do basically anything and so you’ve really got to like if you don’t believe that if you like I can’t I can’t you know be more extroverted or I can become a copywriter or I just can’t be good at sales because I just don’t like talking to like anything any I can’t I think you’ve got to accept that goes generally goes against the entire scientific establishment that because what you’re saying is that like we say I can’t do something, it’s not just you know you could put this down to like all those self-esteem let’s go see a therapist about it, but I don’t know that’s really going to that’s really help – you’re just focusing on the problem what you need to sort of understand is that that you can do anything, given the time of course you can do everything because it’s just not enough time to do everything, but given if you were able to put in the time to learn something and practice something to become better at something you can pretty much do anything you want and that’s a fact and so you have to start with that then you can start to do this mindset that when your brain starts spitting out I can’t do it, I’m nervous something like that instead of that being a story in your head It’s going to stop you from doing whatever it is you want to do it becomes sort of a like oh wow ok this is an area in the code in my brain in the programming in my brain and I let’s basically we need to work with it and change and that’s when you bring in say daily affirmations or meditation is another thing or you know what I do a lot of I found to be – I don’t know how to explain like just extremely valuable in the last year for me is being you know meditate but then after I meditate and it is really the key is figure out what I want which starts at a feeling so I like all sit there and starts visualize whole I’ll see what mark even feels like when he said if I died tomorrow I can come back as anyone in the entire world come back is me. As I want to feel like that about my life and so when I you know after I finish meditating each morning I sit there and I want to try to do is to just bring up that feeling and to sit with it for a few minutes and that sounds really weird like what the hell you know like what the hell is I going to do – but I just I think that is one of the it’s such a small thing but I think that’s one of the biggest things that’s made the last twelve months last year has been just absolutely incredible on a personal fulfillment satisfaction level.

David Allan: Right.

John McIntyre: And I think a large part or big part of it is due to that’s that sort of exercise so I don’t think that woo-woo as we were now I think it’s more about like your brain software and what we all these exercises do it different ways of sort of you know hacking into the brain and changing the software.

David Allan: Yeah you know it’s very interesting. I have a book that I have yet to read so I can’t really comment on this but it’s by another magician by the name of Richard Wiseman, for people out there want to look up this he has a new book out and is it is about the whole fake it ’til you make it thing. I can see it, its mocking me – from my desktop – I have to listen to it ’cause I have the audio book but I have yet to see maybe in a future podcast I’ll report back with what they said because I would have feeling perhaps he’ll have some interesting things to say and his always – his presentations and some of the stuff I seen remember that magical conventions stuff has been all about the mind and those kind of ideas. Won’t help us today perhaps but I will report back with what I find out and I’m sure lead down other paths and the people out there that are struggling with their confidence – we can help them out

John McIntyre: Perfect hope I will think where I am let’s keep it nice and tight, we’re right around the twenty minute mark – let’s wrap it up here. If always, if you want to know more about the show you can go to the mcmethod.com and if you want to learn more about you – get in touch. How do they do it?

David Allan: Go to makewordspay.com. There is a landing page there of sorts I’m told which I checked out the other day, so they’re still working on the main site but you can get in touch me – you can jump on the email llist there – I believe there is also an email there – to email me personally. So if they want to get in touch by all means I love to hear from people on the show because you know, probably people I don’t know yet as you have known audience so forth that I’d love to get to know some people who listen to this on a regular basis.

John McIntyre: Awesome. Links in the Show notes at the mcmethod.com. Thanks for coming on the show once again Dave.

David Allan: Awesome. Thank you John.