The Reason Interview With Nick Gillespie

Michael Shermer: Conspiracy Thinking, Wokeness, and the Future of Free Thought

Jan 22, 2025

Michael Shermer, founder of Skeptic magazine and author on rationalism, discusses the rising tide of conspiracy thinking and its political roots. He argues against the narratives of well-known conspiracies and critiques how wokeness impacts science, compromising research integrity. Shermer emphasizes the need for open discourse in academia and reflects on the evolution of individual rights, particularly in contentious areas like sports and morality. He also sheds light on the phenomenon of UFO sightings, likening it to social contagion and misinterpretation.

53:25

Creator website

Episode guests

MICHAEL SHERMER

AI Summary

AI Chapters

Episode notes

Podcast summary created with Snipd AI

Quick takeaways

Conspiracy theories often arise from a human instinct to find patterns in complex events, leading to irrational beliefs without substantial evidence.

The evolution of wokeness has shifted from awareness of social injustices to a rigid ideology that hampers open discourse and scientific integrity.

Censorship in academia fosters a culture of fear, preventing scholars from expressing dissenting opinions and undermining the advancement of knowledge.

Deep dives

Understanding Conspiracy Theories

Conspiracy theories often stem from a basic human instinct to find patterns and rational explanations in complex events. Many people equate major events with equally significant causes, leading to beliefs that seemingly trivial incidents must involve larger, coordinated conspiracies. For instance, questions surrounding events like the JFK assassination and 9/11 frequently arise due to a cognitive bias that seeks to link unexplained anomalies to vast conspiratorial activities. Shermer emphasizes that real conspiracies do occur, but they are much less common than people believe, and drawing unwarranted conclusions without substantial evidence leads to irrational beliefs.

Intro

2min

Reflections on Wokeness and Editorial Evolution

16min

Navigating Individual Autonomy and Moral Rights

5min

Exploring Gender Divisions in Sports and Personal Cycling Achievements

3min

The Intersection of Wokeness and Science

20min

UFO Sightings: Unraveling the Myth and Misinterpretation

3min

Unraveling Conspiracy Thinking

5min

"Even paranoids have real enemies," said the poet Delmore Schwartz, who was both clinically paranoid and definitely on to something, according to today's guest: Michael Shermer, the founder of Skeptic magazine, Substack superstar, and author of many best-selling books about rationalism, the evolution of morality, and pseudoscience.

He quotes Schwartz in his latest book, Conspiracy: Why the Rational Believe the Irrational, to drive home the point that big, world-changing secret plots happen all the time, but there are reliable ways for us to decide whether Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone, 9/11 was an inside job, or vaccines cause autism. For the record, Shermer says yes, no, and no on those counts.

Reason's Nick Gillespie talks with Shermer about whether conspiracy thinking is on the rise, whether it's coded left or right, how wokeness poisons science, and whether the reelection of Donald Trump means free thought is ascendant. This interview was recorded at a live event in New York City in January. Sign up for invites to and news about Reason's New York events here.

Previous appearances: