In this episode of Empire, Jason and Santi are joined by Yawn Rong, co-founder of STEPN. STEPN is a widely successful Web3 application where users are paid to move (walk, jog or sprint). Yes, that may sound slightly dubious but tell that to the 1.7M+ active users STEPN garnered in only six months after launch.

Tune in to find out why STEPN was so successful and how STEPN plans to be the onboarding ecosystem of Web3!

Highlights include:

- STEPN's pivot to Web2

- How STEPN's two token system works

- Why Yawn believes STEPN will avoid Axie's fate

- How STEPN will expand across chains via Realms

- Why STEPN isn't adopting other exercise types

- Mechanics to retain users

- STEPN's focus on offline networks

- How to prevent users from gaming STEPN

- Potential partnerships

- Yawn's learnings from building in Web3

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Follow Yawn: https://twitter.com/yawn_rong

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Follow Santi: https://twitter.com/santiagoroel

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Core, from Ava Labs, is more than just a wallet. It’s a free, non-custodial browser extension that gives Avalanche users a more seamless and secure Web3 experience. Download Core today at https://www.core.app/

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(00:00) Introduction

(03:39) STEPN's Pivot to Embrace Web2

(08:50) STEPN Overview & The Two Token System

(13:12) Avoiding Axie Infinity's Fate

(15:48) A Response to the Ponzi Accusation

(21:59) The Competition

(23:59) Expanding Chains With Realms

(26:26) How To Scale

(29:33) CORE

(31:02) User Retention In a Bear Market

(34:29) How To Prevent People From Gaming The System

(41:29) Will STEPN support other exercise types

(43:52) Strategy to be the billboard of Web3

(45:39) Building offline networks

(47:58) Onboarding Users

(50:44) User Behaviour

(55:27) Partnering With Insurance Companies

(57:09) Learnings From Building In Web3

(1:01:05) Holding Conviction During a Bear

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Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.

STINCHFIELD TONIGHT JANUARY 7TH, 2026