Has China won? Part 2 of our conversation with Singapore’s Kishore Mahbubani
May 28, 2020
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Former UN ambassador of Singapore, Kishore Mahbubani, joins the Sinica Podcast for an intriguing conversation about American exceptionalism, strategic thinking, and the U.S.-China competition. They discuss the contrasting realities of China and American ideals, the determining factors of the geopolitical contest, strategic thinking in the South China Sea, and America's relationships with its allies. This thought-provoking discussion challenges conventional wisdom and offers valuable insights into the global perspective on U.S.-China relations.
American exceptionalism hinders strategic thinking and self-assessment, impeding long-term stability and cooperation.
The United States should prioritize addressing internal challenges and working with China on common issues rather than engaging in unnecessary geopolitical contests.
Understanding Chinese mindsets and motivations, learning from history, and identifying areas of non-contradiction and cooperation are key to navigating U.S.-China relations.
Deep dives
The challenge of achieving freedom and equality
The podcast discusses the challenge of achieving both freedom and equality in American political culture. The speaker emphasizes that freedom and equality are often at odds with each other, as freedom expresses natural inequalities, while equality aims to suppress them. The United States is described as being at an extreme of valuing freedom over equality. The rich in America are highlighted as having the ability to use their wealth to influence the political system, benefiting the top 0.1% while undermining the bottom 50%. The importance of filling the majority's sense of ownership of the political system is emphasized for long-term stability.
The assumption of American virtue
The podcast explores the assumption of American virtue and exceptionalism. It challenges the idea that Americans are inherently good and virtuous, highlighting the violence and military actions carried out by the US in the name of exporting liberal values. The podcast mentions that America has killed more innocent Muslims than China, showcasing a discrepancy between perception and reality. The chapter on the assumption of virtue is described as a core chapter in the book, discussing how this assumption impedes self-assessment and strategic thinking. The importance of reevaluating American values and actions is emphasized.
The need for a realistic assessment of global challenges
The danger of putting geopolitical contests ahead of internal challenges is discussed in the podcast. It is argued that the United States should focus on addressing internal challenges, such as income inequality and issues related to the majority of the American population, rather than engaging in unnecessary wars and competing against China. The rest of the world's perspective is highlighted, with many countries voicing the need to work with both the United States and China instead of being forced to choose sides. The importance of focusing on common challenges, such as climate change, is emphasized.
Understanding Chinese mindsets and motivations
The podcast addresses the need for American policymakers to have a better understanding of Chinese mindsets and motivations. The century of humiliation experienced by China is highlighted as a critical factor in shaping Chinese aspirations for strength and resilience. The significance of learning from history and avoiding repeating mistakes is discussed. Differences between the Chinese and American strategic thinking are described, with China's focus on long-term stability and avoiding humiliation contrasting with America's triumphalism and short-term thinking.
Seeking areas of non-contradiction and cooperation
The podcast emphasizes the importance of identifying areas of non-contradiction and cooperation between the United States and China. The need to recognize common interests and work towards joint initiatives is highlighted. Examples mentioned include infrastructure building, addressing global challenges like climate change, and avoiding unnecessary wars. The significance of understanding that a major U.S.-China contest is both inevitable and avoidable is discussed, with the potential for cooperation and stability if both countries choose to work together. The importance of avoiding a narrow focus on military contests is emphasized.
In this second half of our interview with Kishore Mahbubani, a former UN ambassador of Singapore, he talks to Kaiser about the perils of American exceptionalism, the poverty of strategic thinking in Washington, and the view of U.S.-China competition from the rest of the world. His latest book, Has China Won? The Chinese Challenge to American Primacy, is a bracing read, unsparing in its criticisms of Chinese and American strategic blunders, and its tough-love approach is sure to rankle.
8:52: Comparing Chinese realities to American ideals
15:31: How the outcome of the U.S.-China geopolitical contest will be decided
24:49: Strategic thinking regarding the South China Sea