#202 – Venki Ramakrishnan on the cutting edge of anti-ageing science
Sep 19, 2024
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Venki Ramakrishnan, a Nobel Prize-winning molecular biologist, delves into anti-aging science and its implications in his new book, *Why We Die: The New Science of Aging and the Quest for Immortality*. He discusses how studying aquatic 'immortal' species and cloning could inform human lifespan. Venki evaluates promising research areas like caloric restriction, cellular reprogramming, and gene therapies. He ponders the ethical dimensions of anti-aging treatments while highlighting the complexities and the need for thorough scientific validation in this exciting yet uncertain field.
The distinction between centenarians and super centenarians reveals complex biological limits to human lifespan that require further exploration.
Recent advancements in molecular biology are pivotal in understanding aging and identifying scientifically backed anti-aging interventions.
Lifestyle changes, particularly regular exercise, play a crucial role in mitigating the effects of aging and promoting overall health.
Advancements in anti-aging treatments may exacerbate health inequities, necessitating proactive measures for equitable access to longevity interventions.
Deep dives
Rising Centenarians and Super Centenarians
The increasing number of centenarians raises interesting questions about longevity, particularly concerning super centenarians, those who live beyond 110 years. Unlike the growing population of centenarians, the rate of super centenarians is not escalating similarly, suggesting potential biological limits to human lifespan. This limitation indicates a rapid decline in health after reaching 110, as super centenarians often avoid the typical aging-related diseases until their final years. The distinction between these groups hints at a complex relationship between aging and our biological systems that need to be understood to explore further longevity.
Cutting-Edge Anti-Aging Research
Recent advancements in molecular biology are unlocking the secrets of aging, providing insights that could lead to extended health spans and lifespans. The podcast discusses various avenues of promising anti-aging interventions, ranging from those with solid scientific backing to those that are overhyped. There is a strong emphasis on the importance of approaching these claims critically, as many interventions may not yet have the scientific validation required to ensure their effectiveness. By discussing the complexity of aging, the podcast highlights the need for rigorous scientific exploration in an industry filled with speculation.
Understanding the Process of Aging
Aging can be understood as a gradual accumulation of damage to cells, tissues, and molecular structures over time. As this damage progresses, it leads to a decline in bodily function, ultimately resulting in death. The mechanisms behind aging involve factors such as loss of cellular integrity and increased susceptibility to diseases. This means that while some aspects of aging can be mitigated through lifestyle changes or advancements in science, the fundamental process may still present inherent biological limits.
The Role of Genes and Evolution in Aging
The podcast presents an argument against the notion that aging is a programmed and evolutionarily beneficial process. Instead, it suggests that longevity depends on complex evolutionary dynamics and trade-offs that do not inherently favor extended lifespans. The fact that some organisms experience negligible senescence showcases the potential for alternative pathways in aging processes. This perspective emphasizes the need to rethink the genetic and environmental factors that influence aging and longevity across different species.
The Importance of Lifestyle Interventions
Regular exercise emerges as a significant factor in extending health and potentially slowing the aging process. Engaging in physical activity is shown to have numerous benefits, including improved mitochondrial function, enhanced mood, and reduced risk of chronic diseases. Additionally, exercise may stimulate cellular repair processes and contribute to overall longevity. The conversation emphasizes that investing in lifestyle interventions like exercise may yield profound health benefits as we age.
Societal Implications of Increased Longevity
An increase in human longevity prompts vital considerations about societal structures, work dynamics, and generational equity. With older populations outnumbering younger ones, there may be challenges in workforce sustainability and economic productivity. The podcast discusses the potential for older individuals to hold onto jobs traditionally filled by younger workers, raising questions about fairness and generational opportunity. As longevity interventions develop, societies must adapt to ensure that all age groups can thrive together in a balanced economy.
Inequality in Access to Longevity Treatments
The gap between the wealthy and the underprivileged could widen significantly with advancements in anti-aging treatments. Historical trends show that medical breakthroughs often benefit affluent individuals first, exacerbating existing health inequities rather than reducing them. This discrepancy could lead to a future where wealthy individuals live significantly longer, healthier lives, while poorer populations continue to face health challenges. Addressing these issues proactively with equitable access to healthcare and longevity interventions is essential for a just society.
"For every far-out idea that turns out to be true, there were probably hundreds that were simply crackpot ideas. In general, [science] advances building on the knowledge we have, and seeing what the next questions are, and then getting to the next stage and the next stage and so on. And occasionally there’ll be revolutionary ideas which will really completely change your view of science. And it is possible that some revolutionary breakthrough in our understanding will come about and we might crack this problem, but there’s no evidence for that. It doesn’t mean that there isn’t a lot of promising work going on. There are many legitimate areas which could lead to real improvements in health in old age. So I’m fairly balanced: I think there are promising areas, but there’s a lot of work to be done to see which area is going to be promising, and what the risks are, and how to make them work." —Venki Ramakrishnan
What we can learn about extending human lifespan — if anything — from “immortal” aquatic animal species, cloned sheep, and the oldest people to have ever lived.
Which areas of anti-ageing research seem most promising to Venki — including caloric restriction, removing senescent cells, cellular reprogramming, and Yamanaka factors — and which Venki thinks are overhyped.
Why eliminating major age-related diseases might only extend average lifespan by 15 years.
The social impacts of extending healthspan or lifespan in an ageing population — including the potential danger of massively increasing inequality if some people can access life-extension interventions while others can’t.
And plenty more.
Chapters:
Cold open (00:00:00)
Luisa's intro (00:01:04)
The interview begins (00:02:21)
Reasons to explore why we age and die (00:02:35)
Evolutionary pressures and animals that don't biologically age (00:06:55)
Why does ageing cause us to die? (00:12:24)
Is there a hard limit to the human lifespan? (00:17:11)
Evolutionary tradeoffs between fitness and longevity (00:21:01)
How ageing resets with every generation, and what we can learn from clones (00:23:48)
Younger blood (00:31:20)
Freezing cells, organs, and bodies (00:36:47)
Are the goals of anti-ageing research even realistic? (00:43:44)
Dementia (00:49:52)
Senescence (01:01:58)
Caloric restriction and metabolic pathways (01:11:45)
Yamanaka factors (01:34:07)
Cancer (01:47:44)
Mitochondrial dysfunction (01:58:40)
Population effects of extended lifespan (02:06:12)
Could increased longevity increase inequality? (02:11:48)
What’s surprised Venki about this research (02:16:06)
Luisa's outro (02:19:26)
Producer: Keiran Harris Audio engineering: Ben Cordell, Milo McGuire, Simon Monsour, and Dominic Armstrong Content editing: Luisa Rodriguez, Katy Moore, and Keiran Harris Transcriptions: Katy Moore
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