Criminologist Federico Varese joins Chris to talk John le Carré—David Cornwell—and what his fiction got right about power, corruption, and the criminal underside of the modern Russian state. Varese, a co-curator of Oxford’s Tradecraft exhibition at the Bodleian, shares how he first met Cornwell in the early 1990s and later advised him on Our Game and Our Kind of Traitor, drawing directly on his research into Russian organized crime. From there, Varese unpacks the post-Soviet trajectory he traces in Russia in Four Criminals—how “free markets” without a strong rule-of-law state produced predation, oligarchic capture, and ultimately what he calls a “mafia state,” where independent organized crime is squeezed out by a system that fuses political and economic power. The conversation also gets into how Russian security services use criminals for deniable operations abroad and how cybercrime functions as a tolerated ecosystem—until the state needs it—turning hackers into a ready-made tool of hybrid warfare.

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Learn more about Federico and his work: https://federicovarese.com

Order Russia in Four Criminals: https://www.politybooks.com/bookdetail?book_slug=russia-in-four-criminals--9781509563609

Visit the Bodleian Libaries’ John le Carré: Tradecraft exhibition: https://visit.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/lecarre

Audio: https://pod.fo/e/36c963
YouTube: https://youtu.be/VfxAE8trReA

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Secrets and Spies is produced by F & P LTD.
Music by Andrew R. Bird
Photo by Bodleian Libraries & Federico Varese

Secrets and Spies sits at the intersection of intelligence, covert action, real-world espionage, and broader geopolitics in a way that is digestible but serious. Hosted by filmmaker Chris Carr and writer Matt Fulton, each episode examines the very topics that real intelligence officers and analysts consider on a daily basis through the lens of global events and geopolitics, featuring expert insights from former spies, authors, and journalists.