This week, we revisit host Isaac Butler's conversation with Liz Stokes and Jon Pearce, who make up half of the New Zealand indie rock band The Beths. In the interview, Liz and Jon walk through their songwriting process step-by-step, from initial riffs and lyrics to their complex vocal harmonies and guitar solos. They also explain why the bridge is often the hardest part of a song to write.

After the interview, Isaac and co-host June Thomas discuss why songwriting sometimes feels like magic.

In the exclusive Slate Plus segment, Isaac’s daughter asks Liz and Jon some questions of her own!

Send your questions about creativity and any other feedback to working@slate.com or give us a call at (304) 933-9675.

Podcast production by Cameron Drews.

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Working: The Flawless Indie Pop of The Beths