E109: Dating & Relationships Deep Dive w/ Noah Smith and Katherine Dee (Default Friend)

Jan 16, 2025

In this engaging discussion, Katherine Dee, a writer and commentator known as 'Default Friend,' dives deep into the complexities of 21st-century dating. She highlights how urban dynamics and socioeconomic factors shape dating experiences. Katherine examines the transformative impact of social media on relationships and how generational attitudes toward sexuality differ. The conversation also tackles the nuances of modern dating culture, including the complexities introduced by movements like Me Too and the manosphere, making it a thought-provoking exploration of contemporary connections.

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INSIGHT

Varying Dating Markets

Multiple dating markets exist, varying significantly between cities and even within the same state.
Consider class and social hierarchy as major factors in dating dynamics, alongside location and profession.

INSIGHT

The Role of Class and Appearance

Class and social hierarchy significantly affect dating experiences, especially regarding gender dynamics.
Expectations of appearance differ between cities; what's considered attractive in one place might not be in another.

INSIGHT

Impact of Societal Shifts

Societal shifts like MeToo and COVID lockdowns have led to increased antisocial behavior and dating difficulties.
Socializing is a muscle that atrophies without regular use, making it harder to re-engage after periods of isolation.

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This week on Upstream, we’re releasing an episode of Econ102. Erik Torenberg and Noah Smith talk with Katherine Dee (@default_friend) about dating in the 21st century, differences in dating markets, the impact of feminism, technology's influence on cultural creativity, societal shifts, and the state of online subcultures.

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RECOMMENDED PODCASTS:

🎙️Econ102 with Noah Smith

Keeping econ entertaining - Noahpinion author Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg break down business news and politics every week.

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1696419056

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6q7Gn5lP8TTtBPuV1NJSGs

🎙️Check out Modern Relationships, where Erik Torenberg interviews tech power couples and leading thinkers to explore how ambitious people actually make partnerships work. This season's guests include: Delian Asparouhov & Nadia Asparouhova, Kristen Berman & Phil Levin, Rob Henderson, and Liv Boeree & Igor Kurganov.

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1786227593

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5hJzs0gDg6lRT6r10mdpVg

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ModernRelationshipsPod

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LINKS:

Default Friend: https://default.blog/

Noahpinion: https://www.noahpinion.blog/

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X / TWITTER:

@default_friend

@noahpinion

@eriktorenberg

@turpentinemedia

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HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE EPISODE:

Dating markets vary dramatically by city and class, with different standards of attraction and success between tech hubs, creative centers, and smaller cities.
COVID's social damage persists, with 30% of young men sexless and many third spaces (bars, cafes) permanently lost, weakening natural meeting opportunities.
Social media has replaced college as the primary connector, fundamentally changing how young people form relationships across geographic boundaries.
While online gender discourse is extreme, real-world dating attitudes are moderate - most people aren't living out manosphere or radical feminist ideologies.
"Situationships" dominate modern dating - undefined, low-commitment arrangements reflecting broader avoidant attachment trends and fear of direct communication.
Social platforms evolved from enhancing real-world connections to replacing them, prompting calls for increased "friction" to encourage meaningful interaction.
Modern dating faces new challenges: declining testosterone, political division, AI relationships, and dating app culture replacing organic connection.
Dating advice has overcomplicated simple human connections - basic attraction and compatibility monetized into unnecessary complexity.
Cultural influence has fragmented from central platforms into dispersed channels, making trends harder to track and predict.