#410 – Ben Shapiro vs Destiny Debate: Politics, Jan 6, Israel, Ukraine & Wokeism
Jan 23, 2024
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Ben Shapiro, a conservative commentator and co-founder of The Daily Wire, clashes with Destiny, a liberal political streamer, in a fiery debate. They tackle pressing issues like the January 6 events and their implications on accountability. The conversation also navigates U.S. foreign policies, particularly in the Middle East, while discussing the nuances of wokeism and identity politics. With spirited perspectives on education and family dynamics, this exchange promises insightful engagement on America’s political landscape.
Trump's rhetoric is divisive, but Biden's also according to polls; Trump had a strong economic record pre-COVID, while Biden's policies are criticized for overspending and inflation.
Biden's coalition building in Ukraine-Russia conflict and Israel-Palestine is appreciated, but the Afghanistan withdrawal was a blemish with Trump's Doha Accords contributing; Lack of clarity and reliance on Zelensky have raised concerns in Ukraine conflict.
Honest conversations about foreign policy are needed to bridge the gap between public perception and policy decisions; Understanding the underlying interests and goals is essential.
The ongoing debate over the $105 billion funding package highlights political challenges; Biden may compromise on border provisions to secure aid for Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan.
Wokeism and identity politics pose a threat; Rooted in postmodernism, they view every principle as a reflection of power structures and emphasize equity over equality.
Deep dives
Divisiveness and Rhetoric
Both Trump and Biden have used divisive rhetoric, but Trump is more uncalibrated and controversial in his speech, while Biden's rhetoric has also been divisive according to polling data.
Economic Performance
Trump had a solid economic record before COVID, with job creation, low unemployment, and income growth. Biden's economic policies have faced criticism for overspending and contributing to inflation.
Foreign Policy
Biden's coalition building efforts in Ukraine-Russia conflict and approach to the Israeli-Palestinian issue have been appreciated. However, the withdrawal from Afghanistan was a blemish, with Trump's Doha Accords contributing to the situation.
Ukraine Conflict and Biden's Approach
Biden's approach to the Ukraine conflict has been criticized for not clearly stating America's interests in the region and outsourcing the end goal to Ukrainian President Zelensky. This lack of clarity and open-ended support has raised concerns about the effectiveness of the approach. There were reports that a peace deal was on the table early on, which could have resulted in the ceding of certain territories to Russia in exchange for security guarantees for Ukraine. However, the lack of a clear end goal and reliance on Zelensky's decision-making have created uncertainty in the process.
Importance of Honest Conversations on Foreign Policy
There is a need for more honest conversations about foreign policy to better understand the reasons behind America's involvement in different conflicts and regions. Many Americans may have strong opinions on foreign policy, but lack an understanding of the underlying interests and goals. It is essential to articulate the realistic interests and engage in open discussions to bridge the gap between public perception and actual policy decisions.
The Debate Over Funding and Border Provisions
The ongoing debate over the $105 billion funding package, which includes aid for Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan, as well as border provisions, highlights the political challenges involved in negotiations. Some Republicans are pushing for border funding and provisions due to concerns about illegal immigration, while Democrats are hesitant to include them. There is a suggestion that President Biden could compromise on the border provisions in order to secure the aid for Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan. This could be seen as a win-win situation, allowing Biden to address multiple issues while also satisfying different constituencies.
Threat of Wokeism and Identity Politics in Universities
Wokeism and identity politics, rooted in postmodernism, pose a significant threat to our culture and Western civilization. Wokeism views every principle as a reflection of underlying power structures, leading to the belief that any inequality is a result of a white supremacist system perpetuated by those in power. This ideology has gained traction in the form of DEI programs, which emphasize equity over equality. Recent incidents involving the presidents of Harvard, Penn, and MIT failing to denounce calls for genocide raise concerns about the influence of these programs. The impact of wokeism and identity politics on universities and societal values cannot be underestimated.
The Definition and Dangers of Wokeism
Wokeism has its roots in postmodernism and critical race theory, promoting the idea that the structures of power in society are inherently racist and perpetuate white supremacy. This ideology has transformed into a softer form known as DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion), which prioritizes equity over equality. The belief in systemic racism and the focus on identity politics pose a threat to our culture and Western civilization. It is important to address the dangers of wokeism and its influence on societal values, especially in educational institutions.
The Importance of Meritocracy and the Danger of Equity
Meritocracy is the only system that has positive externalities in any area of life. It allows the most effective and useful individuals to succeed, benefiting society as a whole. On the other hand, the idea of equity, which aims to correct inequalities through anti-racist policies and discrimination based on race, is dangerous. It leads to a victim-victimizer narrative, undermines individual responsibility, and destroys the objective metric of meritocracy.
The Role and Challenges of Institutions in Society
Institutions in the United States, particularly in education, have faced significant challenges. There is a growing divide and similarity among people, with conservatives increasingly disengaging from institutions, leading to a lack of conservative representation. This has resulted in left-leaning administrations prevailing, pushing further left, and enforcing ideological conformity. While alternatives like alternative universities may offer competition and the potential for change, the overall system, including the educational one, is criticized as a scam and in need of reform.
Ben Shapiro is a conservative political commentator, host of The Ben Shapiro Show, co-founder of The Daily Wire, and author of The Authoritarian Moment and other books. Steven Bonnell, aka Destiny, is a liberal political commentator and a live streamer on YouTube. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:
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OUTLINE:
Here’s the timestamps for the episode. On some podcast players you should be able to click the timestamp to jump to that time.
(00:00) – Introduction
(07:21) – Liberalism vs Conservatism
(12:34) – Education
(28:51) – Trump vs Biden
(49:16) – Foreign policy
(1:02:13) – Israel-Palestine
(1:17:10) – Russia-Ukraine
(1:28:50) – January 6
(1:44:48) – Abuse of power
(1:54:46) – Wokeism
(2:01:27) – Institutional capture
(2:15:21) – Monogamy vs open relationships
(2:20:14) – Rapid fire questions
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