Justin and John sit down with Shadi Hamid, author of The Problem of Democracy. Shadi's book explores the "democracy dilemma," the challenge of accepting democratic outcomes that may be illiberal or alarming but win public support. He explains how the experience of the Egyptian Revolution informs his concern that elites are often unwilling to allow religiously conservative voters a chance to determine public policy. The group discuss "liberal backstops" on democracy and when those may be appropriate to protect social pluralism.

Shadi is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, contributing writer at The Atlantic, research professor of Islamic studies at Fuller Seminary.

Find the book here: https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-problem-of-democracy-9780197579466