In this episode of The Changemakers, Dave chats with Rachel Gogel, a seasoned creative executive consultant. Having built brands at titans like The New York Times, Meta, and Airbnb, Rachel knows a thing or two about transforming brand from a 'nice-to-have' into a vital business engine, and dives into her diverse career journey, from her graphic design roots to her current role as a fractional design leader and educator.

For creative leaders, Rachel offers invaluable advice on getting brand taken seriously. She champions speaking the language of business, focusing on metrics like user retention and conversion rates rather than just aesthetics. And she passionately champions in-product brand experiences, explaining how a strong brand isn't just about aesthetics, but about creating seamless, intuitive interactions within the product itself.

Drawing on her experiences, Rachel shares how to speak the language of executives, connecting brand initiatives to tangible outcomes like user retention, conversion rates, and lifetime value. She also shares the story behind her recent SXSW London panel, "Crafting Magic: The Art of Product", featuring fellow design leaders from Dropbox, Slack and Anthropic.

The conversation also explores the unique brand approach at Airbnb, where design and brand are valued from the very top. Rachel explains how to scale brand across diverse organisations, stressing that strong relationships and clear roles trump rigid org charts. She tackles the tricky balance of maintaining consistency while allowing teams to move fast.

Finally, we get into practical tips for leaders navigating competing priorities, including internal education, piloting ideas, and the power of user research in validating branded moments. Ultimately, Rachel advocates a powerful mindset shift: moving beyond brand as decoration to brand as experience, recognising that product and brand are inseparable in the user's mind.

Timestamps:

00:00 Introduction and Welcome Rachel Gogel
01:52 Rachel's Diverse Career Journey and Fractional Leadership
06:50 SXSW London Panel: In-Product Brand Experiences
10:30 Advocating for Brand with Executive Teams
13:14 Brand as a Business Critical Function: Lessons from NYT & Meta
20:00 The Airbnb Approach to Brand and Design
26:22 Scaling Brand Across Organisations and Best Practices
34:10 Essential Qualities for Creative Leaders
44:30 Beyond Decoration: Brand as Experience

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