Flirting with Models Antti Ilmanen - Understanding Return Expectations (S7E21)
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Sep 15, 2025 In this engaging discussion, Antti Ilmanen, Principal and Global Co-head of the Portfolio Solutions Group at AQR Capital Management, shares his expertise on expected returns. He explores the nuances between objective and subjective expectations and the behavioral biases that distort investor predictions. Delving into CAPE ratios, he critiques over-extrapolation by equity investors versus the mean reversion mindset of bond investors. Antti also tackles the myth of U.S. exceptionalism in equity performance and emphasizes the importance of humility in navigating today's complex yield landscape.
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Objective Vs Subjective Expectations
- Antti distinguishes objective expected returns (data-driven, yield/valuation based) from subjective ones (surveyed investor beliefs).
- Subjective views can diverge sharply from objective signals and explain bubbles and troughs.
Early Rejection Of Survey Research
- Antti recalls a PhD-era meeting where a professor crumpled his survey-data idea and threw it in the bin.
- That episode delayed Antti's interest but later motivated his survey-based research.
Denominator Vs Numerator Framing
- Academics focus on discount rates in the DCF (denominator) while many investors focus on cash flows (numerator).
- This mismatch makes investors treat good growth news as automatically implying high expected returns.
