#21 - TikToK is banned! Or is it? Sense making the madness with Joseph Perla, Founder of Turntable.fm and Hangout.fm

Feb 28, 2025

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TikTok (and social media as a whole) has transformed the music industry, perhaps on the same level as the evolution of digital streaming—from enabling once-unrecognized artists like Chappell Roan to build massive online followings & successful careers overnight, to revolutionizing the way we market and promote live concerts and record releases. The industry has arguably changed for the better thanks to these tools, but the plot thickens with TikTok—perhaps the stickiest of all social media platforms, which also happens to be fully owned and operated by a Chinese company.

Is TikTok a massive psyop for the CCP to gather security intel? The greatest propaganda tool ever invented (broadcasting straight into the minds of hundreds of millions of Americans)? Or is it simply a fun place to share videos? These questions have drawn the attention of everyone from presidents and executives of the world’s largest companies, to the Supreme Court—all weighing in on what should happen.

Through this conversation, Joseph Perla helps us make sense of what’s happening and shares his vision for the second coming of Turntable.fm, called Hangout.fm. Hangout.fm is an exciting new social media platform that relies on HI (Human Intelligence) instead of AI, enabling friends to connect and share music in a fresh, engaging way. I was a user of Turntable.fm back in 2011 and loved the platform—I remember when record labels effectively shut it down. Now, Joseph has partnered with those same labels to refresh the service with a modern take.

All this and more in the latest episode.

(00:15) – The scoop: Is TikTok banned? Did Congress make it illegal? How are Trump’s policies playing into this? Can people still use it now? Will it be sold?

(7:25) – Is the TikTok ban beyond Trump? What does the letter of the law say? Could Apple and Google be fined for new downloads of TikTok?

(11:22) – What is the secret sauce of the TikTok algorithm? Will they ever sell it?

(16:44) – The role Meta’s lobbyists and other tech giants have played in the TikTok ban.

(19:05) – Unpacking the theory that TikTok is a security issue for the U.S.

(31:45) – The argument that allowing TikTok is part of operating in the free world.

(37:47) – How this impacts the music industry, Joseph’s solution with Hangout, and the distinction between HI and AI (Human Intelligence vs. Artificial Intelligence).

(38:50) – The evolution of Turntable.fm, how it was shut down by record labels, and how that eventually led to the launch of Hangout in a post-Spotify era. Plus, the overall evolution of the industry, from cassettes to digital MP3s to VR and AR.

(51:50) – A new solution for using social media to market live shows

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