The One Where We Geek Out on Sustainable Applications with Aicha Laafia

Jan 14, 2025

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About our guest:

Aicha Laafia Java Software Engineer with a love for coding, a taste for delicious food, and a heart for volunteering. Aicha is also a member of the Moroccan Association of Computing Science, a Women Techmakers and Girls Code ambassador, and an IAmRemarkable facilitator.

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All of our social channels are on bento.me/geekingout
All of Adriana's social channels are on bento.me/adrianamvillela

Show notes:

Transcript:
ADRIANA: Hey, fellow geeks, welcome to Geeking Out, the podcast about all geeky aspects of software delivery, DevOps, Observability, reliability, and everything in between. I'm your host, Adriana Villela, coming to you from Toronto, Canada and geeking out with me today, I have Aisha Laafia. Welcome, Aisha.

AICHA: Welcome, Adriana. And welcome everyone.

ADRIANA: So nice to have you on here and for a little bit of background. Oh, so first of all, actually, where are you calling from today?

AICHA: Well, right now I'm from Lyon in France.

ADRIANA: That's awesome. And you know, given that it's afternoon here in, in Canada when we're recording in Toronto, Canada, um, it's evening for you, so I appreciate you taking the time out of your evening, especially because you, you had an event that you were at earlier today that you ducked out of for this recording, so definitely appreciate that. And you know, I wanted to mention to our viewers slash listeners that the way that you and I met was really cool. We met at KCD Porto in Portugal in September of 2024. And yeah, I, I was keynoting there and then you came up to me after my keynote and we started chatting, and it was just so great chatting with you. I had like such an amazing time and, you were telling me your story, so I can't wait to get into that. But first, I have some lightning round slash icebreaker questions for you. Okay, you ready?

AICHA: I'm ready.

ADRIANA: Okay. I swear they're not terrible, they're not painful. Okay, first question. Are you a lefty or a righty?

AICHA: Well, I am a righty.

ADRIANA: Okay. Do you prefer iPhone or Android?

AICHA: I'm always Android girl.

ADRIANA: All right. Do you prefer Mac, Linux, or Windows?

AICHA: Well, I preferred Linux, but I'm forced to use Windows.

ADRIANA: Oh, that makes me cry. That makes me cry. Do you use Windows subsystem for Linux?

AICHA: That's my hero, literally.

ADRIANA: Yeah, that's what saved me too. The last time I had a Windows machine, I'm like, please let them have enabled it. Because that's the other thing. You get a Windows machine and like some companies disable it or don't allow you to like download the VMs, like the whatever Linux VM to run WSL.

AICHA: Well, for me...that's the first thing I ask about is that give me the administration role in my. I have to take control.

ADRIANA: Yes, yes, yes. Good call, good call. And I mean, you do dev work, you should have, you know, some, some sort of administrative access over your, your machine, right?

AICHA: Indeed. And as I am you can say old school. I'm all more like comand type of people. Developers who use command more than like platforms or desktop applications. For me. I like to write things to see logs more than just to click on buttons.

ADRIANA: For sure, for sure. I feel you. Okay, next question. Do you have a favorite programming language?

AICHA: It's obviously Java. I don't know like hesitate this question. Of course it's Java.

ADRIANA: Of course. I love it.

AICHA: I love it.

ADRIANA: I think I told you Java was like I spent many years in, in Java, so Java and I were very good friends for a long time. I couldn't tell you what's new in Java anymore though. I'm so out of touch.

AICHA: Well, there's a lot of things indeed. Like Java has been accelerating very, very fast and that's a very good news for us.

ADRIANA: Yeah, yeah, I can imagine. Like what? Okay, so my. I'm of the days of like EJBs and J2EE which I don't even know if that's like a thing anymore. What's, what's something cool in Java like that you're excited about.

AICHA: Like right now it's still a thing, but they're working more like beans or Spring doing its work with more advanced features that's handling the beans. But for Java native, like we have the system that. For example, what I really loved is the ZCG like the garbage collection. Right now it's really advanced. Like for there is ?Shenandoah, for example that it doesn't care about what memory size you have. It's always accelerating, always taking care of your memory handling mechanism. Also like right now we don't have to type a lot of things. That's something that many people complain about Java. There are that there are a lot of new features. You get anonymous classes you can create. You don't have like really to do that big lines. You have like Lombok project that you. We cannot like really right now write all those getters and setters for our instance. You can just enable annotation. Getter. Setter.

ADRIANA: Oh my God, yes. This would have saved me so much time. I remember like painstakingly writing all the getters and setters back in the day and you know like your IDE can like auto generate that stuff and all that if you, if you're nice to it. But yeah, that's, that's nice that annotations can help with that. Yay. Yeah, annotations. I think we're just getting started when I was getting out of Java. So yeah, it's been a while.

AICHA: You missed the fun.

ADRIANA: I know, I know I missed the fun. I missed the fun. I, I gotta ask because, because you're, you're into the Java world. How do you, have you ever played with Kotlin or Groovy?

AICHA: Groovy? Yes. Because I didn't. Well, Groovy. Not that much because most of the projects I worked on they were mainly based on Maven, so but a lot of part we tried to migrate some Groovy there and see to replace it but it didn't work. Yeah. So I'm mainly like Maven. For Kotlin, I didn't have the chance to do it, but it's really my to learn list because I've heard a lot of people saying it's really advanced. Like it takes the basic of Java, it's based on Java, but a lot of you can use it on the mobile, you can use it on desktop, even programs in like it's more light, small. Like in terms of performance. I've heard a lot of good things.

ADRIANA: About Kotlin, so yeah, I, I have as well. So yeah, yeah I, I, that's one I wouldn't mind trying out if, if I had time. I gotta, gotta find that time though to learn. There's like so many cool things to learn, I don't know where to start.

AICHA: Indeed this is, and this is why like Kotlin and Python is on my 2025 like to learn lists.

ADRIANA: Yeah.

AICHA: With the machine in AI right now, every like service we try to integrate AI a lot to automate the things especially that communicate with people and a lot of handling processes we try. So I have to learn Python because even using Java in the machine learning there are some script or some integrated libraries that use Python. So we have to understand. Oh in that the new things about Java, we can handle machine learning with Java too.

ADRIANA: That's cool. That's very cool. It's funny you mentioned Python because Python was like the language I learned after Java and I mean Python's been around for so long. Right. And I have to say like, I hope when you get around to Python I would love to know what your thoughts are. I always, I like Python. I think it's a very pleasant, pleasant language to, to develop in. So yeah. Yeah and yeah it's like so big in, in the machine learning space. It's wild. I love it. I love that it's like it's still alive and kicking.

AICHA: Indeed. Like for me before I started with actually the first time I tried something like coding. It was a Linux script that was like in the middle school. My sister, she was studying a little bit of like tech. It was the tech. So and she was trying some scripting Linux. She was like try this. I. I still remember my first command. It was "ls".

ADRIANA: That was my first Linux command too.

AICHA: I didn't know what does do what does how it works but I tried. But like yeah, that's interesting. And then when I tried to look for like what I want to do. For backup story, I used to dream to be a psychologist.

ADRIANA: Oh cool.

AICHA: I could not find like a really good school there that have the like the domain that I want to study there in Morocco. So it was like I need to something that you can analyze a lot of things that have a lot of logics there. And I found the tech industry especially when I got to know that that's something that we will do it in the future. It's really developing. It's. It will become part of our life. I start to be more passionate, more curious about this and this is where I try. Yeah I will do. I will go to the tech industry but what I will do. I try to look for something. Tried front end, back end when I was a student. B ut I found myself more into backend especially Java. Like I start with the C language at first. I, I create some really interesting like I even built a mini game for 3D using C. Language C. Yeah, I even like in. Then I switch a little bit doing something that like creating the systems more and with Linux like kernel that's. That was my geek in phase there in school.

ADRIANA: That's great.

AICHA: Yeah. And then I was like I, I was introduced to Java and I can call it like falling in love first line of code because I love really the sense of being organized. There is a pattern, it's organized. If you miss something, you know what's going on, what you missed. And it's really mature, it's really robust. Like it's always about mechanism that handling a lot from errors to security and all that. And even like back there there was a lot of code. I was like okay, that's a price I will take. I will code a lot. But it's good for me.

ADRIANA: Yeah.

AICHA: And this is why like I start to fall in love with Java. But what really make me adore it, it's always the community.

ADRIANA: Oh yeah, yeah. I hear lovely things about the Java community. I actually had someone on the podcast earlier, Ix-chel Ruiz, she's based out of, I want to say Basel. Have you met Ix-chel?

AICHA: Actually, thanks to Ix-chel that I did my first technical talk. And thank you a lot because we met back there in the Devoxx Morocco, like in 2022, I think, or 23. And I did the, like, my first real talk. It was on how to organize. I did it tech events, like IT events one to one. And I met her during her talk. By the end of talk, I went to talk to her and I said that I do this talk. Here's what I'm talking about. And she was like, you do Java, Why not do a technical talk? I said, I don't have experience, like no shared experience that you have. We need more women in tech. I even like did a little bit of a little interview, like open mic. That's something I used to do for community there in Morocco. And I met her and a lot of women in tech and it was like, go do it. And the amazing part is that my first, like, on site technical talk on the Barcelona, she was there. I met her.

ADRIANA: Oh, my God.

AICHA: Yeah.

ADRIANA: Oh, my God. I'm getting like all emotional hearing this.

AICHA: You know, for the fact that I told the community that this is my first real technical, like talk. They all went to to see my talk all in the front. I was like, oh, really? Like the Java champion that were my role model are now attending my talk. That's my.

ADRIANA: Wow, that is such a great and inspiring story. And you know, like the fact that we have a connection back to a previous guest. And I remember actually when Ix-chel was. Was on the podcast, she mentioned that one of the reasons why she got into public speaking is that she wanted to empower other women. And I love hearing the story. Like I, you know, a story where another guest was empowered by her. This is so lovely.

AICHA: Like, I really have to thank her because she did. She said, why not if you're already doing a talk, do the technical one.

ADRIANA: Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah. And. And you know, what you said is so important. A lot of people are like, well, but I'm not, you know, I haven't gotten too deep into this. I'm not enough of an expert. And people want to hear that stuff because there's still beginners out there. There. Like, it's very relatable. So relatable. And. And I think it's more relatable coming from a beginner talking from a beginner's point of view than someone being more experienced talking from a beginner's point of view. I think it's a very powerful story that way. I Love, honestly, I love the story. I love that you, you felt empowered by Ix-chel and, and you were lifted up by the rest of the Java community through their support just by being there for your talk. And, and you know, like I, I can. I saw you speak at KCD Porto. You were a great speaker. You gave, was it a lightning talk? I'm trying to remember. It was on sustainability. It was, it was a really great talk on sustainability. I'm so glad that I attended because it was, it was like really informative, you know, to the point, fun. Everything that a talk needs to be.

AICHA: Yeah, for me, as I said, sustainability was, was and is a really topic that I'm interested of and I try to really let people know that we need to consider an impact that we forgot a lot or not being attention to it. We're always talking about protecting the environment, sorting our like our things, making, using like more renewable energy resources. But we never check what our codes do to the environment. And as I said before, our tech industry like contribute to 3% of the global greenhouse gas emissions, and by 2030 it will be more than 13%. And that's a really huge number that we contribute to it as developers. And for us, if you want to really like make impact you need big steps that we go to the data centers, to the other like companies that create the machines that use energy to let them reduce the energy or go for more, we can sell real like energy, renewable energy that's more greener energy resources. But for us that's something that's, for us as a developer, it's really big step that's so hard for. So why not start with baby steps by at least making our application optimized, making our code clean and then going step by step to be a green code.

So first step is that for me you need to. The least thing you can do is that go with the more algorithms that use less time, the less time the less resources to consume. And then the second step is to monitor your application, whatever it's talking about, the energy or the carbon emissions. There are some SDKs that we can use, some tools we can use for monitoring and there's a lot of like big movements and efforts by developers to developers to seek this like this purpose. So please guys, don't just check the financial impact but also the environmental one.

ADRIANA: I totally agree with you on that and I think that's so important because you know, we, we talk, I, I think there's a lot of talk on the impact that our data centers have on the environment. Which is a huge impact, like really making sure that our infrastructure is greener. But then there's also the software that we're running, making sure that that is greener as well. And I think you brought focus on a really important point. It's gotta come from both sides, both the operational standpoint and the development standpoint. The application standpoint. Those, those two things combined can help us make greener software. And it's, it's kind of ironic that like we're in an industry that you know like the, the mere fact that we're, we're working in this industry is contributing to greenhouse gas emissions. Which personally makes me feel a little bit guilty as I go along because you see all this horrible stuff like all these extreme climate events going on.

AICHA: Indeed. And many when you're discussing about how to really help the environment, you're like oh, we will use like common transportation, we will do this, we will take care of our plants. And I was like, show me your code. Show me your code. Show me your logs. Show me the energy usage that you use. They were like no, the thing is they thought that it will not impact. Then I said check the statistics because our codes use machines and machines needs energy and that energy it's due to some the we can call it like the complexity of our algorithms that's something we write were directly impacted. So as always. And also up, like, besides the code, there is the energy in the resource management and this is why like there in Porto I mentioned like, for Kubernetes, there is horizontal like HPA and VPA. Like you need to check your pods. Don't just overcharge your pod or create more pods that you will not need that consumes more energy.

And also like during your pod, check your nodes too. So it's more like you need to seed balance. Don't create too many pods that will consume more and don't create then few pods that will be overcharged. So it will impact the performance. It's always about balancing the performance with. You can call it like the optimization.

ADRIANA: Yeah, yeah, that's a really good point too and. Oh, sorry, go ahead.

AICHA: No, it's okay. It's okay like for the fun fact is that I don't do DevOps but like it's only on casual things. I do it from time to time with our DevOps like team or engineer doesn't have the time to do it. But when I see a like real impact of our Java native codes I have to say that we need like to containerizations of our application. We need to more focus on the clouds because this is, you can call it temporary solution to like to avoid the machines that the traditional one because it's consume more energy than containers. Than using containers in virtual machines. So you can continue.

ADRIANA: Damn. So it's basically a point for containers.

AICHA: Indeed. CNCF is really working on some amazing projects for sustainability. I just discovered there in KCD Porto and I really loved what they do. They say we working on open source projects where everyone can contribute and right now we are seeing the impact of this we try to do too. So good job, guys.

ADRIANA: Yay. And you're referring to the TAG Sustainability group in CNCF. That's awesome. And speaking of that, what. Is there any specific project in CNCF that that group is working on that like really, really interests you where you're like oh, they're really doing some cool work on sustainability?

AICHA: Well right now I don't remember because I saw a lot of projects but there is one about Kubernetes that handle like really the pods that you are using, if it's not been used, it turned off automatically, something like that. So it's managed like the usage. If there are some heavy usage, it turn on some other pods inactivated and if, if a pod is not activated, is not used, it will be deactivated automatically. That's something about managing. Yeah, I just don't. I forgot the name. I'm having this issue of forgetting names of projects in libraries a lot.

ADRIANA: That's all good.

AICHA: It's Kube-Green. Kube-Green.

ADRIANA: Oh yeah. Kube-Green. Sleep your Pods, reduce your CO2 emissions. Hey, I learned something new today. That's awesome. So Kube-Green is the, is the name of the project. That's, that's super awesome that there's something out there that, that you know is, is monitoring your, your pods. Um, yeah, it, it's funny. And, and you know like this is one of those things where you can tie it back to finance where you're like, well you know, if you're using, if, if you got a bunch of idle pods like it's going to cost you money because not the cloud, the cloud's not free. So I feel like it's a compelling argument to like you know, tie greenhouse gas emissions to financial repercussions as well. Because as we know executives speak in dollars and not CO2 emissions. So it helps to make for a more compelling argument.

AICHA: Yeah, actually this is what I, I'm always saying at the end of my talk. If the stakeholders are not convinced, talk about finance, tell them that you will use less energy, less money.

ADRIANA: Exactly. Perfect. Perfect. That's awesome. I got to ask you like what interested you in this aspect of like sustainability and tech in the first place?

AICHA: Actually I just discovered it out of curiosity. I saw a tweet about something like sustainability. I look for it like sustainability in tech industry. The first thing that comes in the search is was statistics. That's how, how scary it is how big those numbers are. I was like damn, we need to take action and why not start it by myself. What I am doing, what I like to do is to share information. Especially like I start to submit talks. And this is why the first talk I did it was in the Barcelona to talk about the green programming in Java.

ADRIANA: And what you know, I want to. I want to take a. A little step back in. In your. Just rewind on your career stuff. Because when. When you and I met, one of the things that most impressed me about you is you know, just like you had this curiosity to like hey, I just wanted to like learn. Learn about this. You know, the. The environmental impact of tech. I. I was so impressed. I think you told me a story about how like you were thrown into a very unknown situation at one of your previous companies where you basically had to learn DevOps kind of on the fly. If I recall correctly. and correct me if I'm wrong. I was wondering if you could talk about that.

AICHA: I start first as intern there I was in the team with like lots of backend developer and there was a system engineer that handled this. After that it was a decision by the client do not like have any system engineering and we will have to do this. Then when I. When I then like after one year I've been transferred to another team. We were just only two backends and it was a lot of challenging tasks to do. So I started with little things. Thankfully I already have some background. Like I already know Linux. I already know Docker. How to use, how to run containers. It was the basics, but I have to handle a lot of things from Kibana from Logs. Grafana. How to check this. Jenkins. How to handle CI/CD Circle. If there is issue especially like you are talking about Ansible, how to use. Or versioning with Nexus. If some issue with logins or some issue with connection between them how to handle it. It was like a very new world for me. And I was like. The senior that that I have on my second team, it was a really good senior. He was a really good mentor because I said to him listen, you don't have to do all the work just because you are a senior. I'll try to help. Just give me the index what I can learn to do this. And he just gave me we can see the alphabets. Go learn Docker. I said I already have the background. And he was like, if you know Linux, Docker, and keep a little bit of Kubernetes, just take care of the system issues in the server and I will handle the rest. So by second, like on the second team, I only handled system issues. But then after a while I've been transferred to the other team and I was the only backend dev. This is where I have to do all the work. So yes, I start to learn about Ansible, Jenkins, Nexus, Grafana, Kibana, and all geeky stuff. Well, the thing is, first it was a little bit challenging, but I found myself really loving it like to discover. Especially because I start to understand DevOps. It's not only about tools, it's about how to communicate with the team, it's how to operate. Yeah, operate is only about machines about to operate between the teams. What the team needs, you need to talk to them to understand what version they need, what, like which time they will need it so we can schedule it to have the environment ready for them to test or to develop something there. So for me it was a good start. And this is where I become more interested in the cloud too, and DevOps.

ADRIANA: Yeah, that's so cool.

AICHA: So it was like a best decision from the big head that lead to some really good results for us too.

ADRIANA: That's such an amazing story. And you know, you've touched upon so many things that I think are so important for anyone getting into software, which is like, you know, you were. I think a lot of us who get into software, like the jobs that we start off with when we graduate are not the jobs we end up with years down the line. I mean, technology evolves so much and you have to evolve your learning along the way. You have to evolve your point of view and you have to be willing to take on new stuff. And I love that you have this very positive attitude towards learning because I think if you're not willing to learn new stuff, you're in technology. I don't know, like, I think you're gonna have a very short career. And you took it, you took it in stride and, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you're pretty, like. You're, you're pretty young in your career, right? If, if I recall from our conversations earlier.

AICHA: Actually, yeah. I almost have like with interns all that, three years of experience. Like with the same job I start as intern, like handling small tasks small, fixing bugs. And then I went to my manager and I said, listen, I don't feel like this is the real tech, this is the real development. It's about fixing solutions, fixing problems, finding solutions. I need to understand like the business to fix the issues. It was like, okay, you can start doing some like analyze solution designs. You can start with small ones. This is where I went to the second team and they were, they know this fact. The first ticket that I worked on it, it was like a function ticket they gave me. This is what the like the client needs. I created solution design for it. The architect for it, I discussed with my senior, he validated. Then I start to develop it to implement what I write. And this is like for me my beginning to technical, like writing. So in by that when I start really to do technical talking, I start to write documentation too. Because I found something, some information were missing and was like, I need to write this myself. If it's not for me, it's for like the next generation, the one that will come after me.

ADRIANA: Exactly. And that's, that's such a great attitude because I, you know, it's so easy to sit there and like complain about oh these docs are crappy and then but you can do something about it. You can go and fix it and make it better for everyone.

AICHA: Indeed. Especially because the team that I was working on, it was a big one, but it was like if there is something to upgrade, something to handle, go for it. Because it's really old projects, they try always to make migration to upgrade new services, but for all documentation it was been untouched. So do you say you're welcome, just leave a note why you did this and everything's good.

ADRIANA: That's great, that's great. And I think, you know, I do find like documenting things makes you a better speaker because I think it forces you to like really sit back and like choose your words carefully to be able to explain stuff. And especially for a technical talk, technical documentation, you really have to be able to explain it, explain things clearly in order to be effective at it. Which is I think a very, it's a very hard skill to hone. And you know, considering that like you're so young in your career and you've done all of this amazing stuff, it just blows my mind. Like you, you've got to be like, if I were your manager, I'd be like, can we just clone her a bunch?

AICHA: Actually like the last team there, I was work in SQLI in Morocco. I had manager. He was like, listen, I'm already consider you a senior. You can do it. He never ever like questions my decisions.

ADRIANA: Well, I think you bring in the right attitude too, because so many people like I've worked with, I've managed my fair share of people. And I've, I've, I had, I've had superstars like you. And then I've had the people who are like, tell me what I need to do. And it's like, dude. Just like, show, a little bit of initiative, please.

AICHA: We can do it. Well, yeah, indeed, because I really had a good start. That's, I had a good start. You were like, listen, here we don't make difference between senior or junior. If there is a ticket and you are free, you can do it. You want help, ask for it. We will give you mentoring. And this is why they really spent two years and a half there. It was a really boosting career for me.

ADRIANA: Yeah.

AICHA: So. And then even like I had to make the hard decision to quit that company because I got opportunity to go to live here in France. And for me, because I really like, I want to try new adventure, especially to come to Europe. But we can say mainly because of events, because of community, because here it's more accessible right now. I can travel to events without like checking for visas or other traveling requirements. So I said, why not? I'm still young, I'll try it. And I come here in France with this company. They hire me as like backend software consultants and then they do conferences too. This is where I got opportunity to do talks from in Barcelona, in, in Spain, Barcelona and in Luxembourg too. But as there is a crisis here in like the tech industry, I've been fired, laid off. Yeah. And this is the like a message to everyone who's saying it will not impact you. You never know because. And it's not your fault.

ADRIANA: That's so true. That's so true.

AICHA: Yeah. Because thankful I'm already having like this cheerful mindset. When I, when I got the news, I was like, okay, that's happened. And what's really helped me, to be honest, is that on that period of time there was Paris Olympics, so I had the time, the full time to enjoy it.

ADRIANA: That's true. That's true.

AICHA: Good.

ADRIANA: It's something to distract you while, you know, like from, from a, a very crappy situation. But you know, like, I, I think you, you made a really excellent point, which is like, you know, when, when you're laid off because a company's making cutbacks or whatever, it's. You can't help but take it personally. It's devastating news. It cuts you. It, it really does. And I mean and, and I think it's a perfectly normal reaction to have. I think you have to, you need that time to mourn it. Right?

AICHA: Indeed. Because you start to question yourself, your like competence, your abilities. You keep telling, oh, because I don't have, like, I don't have experience enough that this is why it's happened to me in all that. And then I was like, well, I got. The thing is for me. Or I can give this advice to everyone. If you are facing any difficulty situation, give yourself the time to process it. Accept the fact it's happen. If you want to cry, cry. If you want to scream, scream. Just don't let it inside you. That's really. It will impact more your mental health. Express yourself. Let it go. Let it out of you. It's either if you are more like talking person, talk to someone. If you are doing physical, good. Go for a run or go for a dance. If you are more like party person, just don't, don't just stay like on your house alone thinking or thinking about it. Because the good is that. I already took this lesson from a book that I read. It's about when you start to understand what you can change and what you cannot change and not waste energy on what you cannot change. More on focus on solutions than the problem. You will like optimize, you can say your resources and you will help yourself, your mental self. So please difference between what you can change, what you cannot change.

ADRIANA: Yeah, I, I think that's such an important thing. Such an important point to make is, is, you know, be aware of what you can change. Be aware of you can't, what you can't change because it's very easy to get sucked into that and, and you know, like one negative thought feeds another and, and it can, it can spiral and you know, we've talked about mental health a number of times on, on this podcast and, and getting laid off takes a toll on your mental health. You know, it, I, I'd be surprised if you said it didn't, you know, like, because it is like, it's tough.

AICHA: Yeah, it did. Especially like for me because I never ever had this situation. I was studying and I had like there in Morocco, we have the last six months of ours, like studying in engineering school. We do an internship. And I was recruited during the internship, so directly. I didn't have any process and it was like kind of first time I'm jobless. I have a lot of like especially I have rents to pay. I'll have lots of charge. I need to look for a job ASAP. And it was like during the Olympics. So this stopped the recruitment. They were more focusing on the vacation, Olympics, and all that. So and the fact that by time I didn't find a job, I was like, why this is happen to me and that. I try hard. And then I was like, why? Just looking there in like the Paris region, why not look in France? And this is where I got this job here in Lyon. And the funny fact I really like here, I, I start to see like the impact of me getting laid off. It was a good thing.

ADRIANA: Yeah.

AICHA: Because right now here I'm really with, with the, with the team. That's really encouraging. Giving me all like give your potential. If you want to do something, if you want to suggest something, do it. And like really very, they are very like lovely persons. Like today we have the Christmas party. It was so fun. And for the fact that I don't drink, I was the only one that doesn't drink there. The only one that's eating like halal food.

ADRIANA: Yeah.

AICHA: Like the menu for today it was mainly fish and veggie meals because I cannot eat meat.

ADRIANA: Right, right.

AICHA: Yeah. This is how considerate they are. So for me it's

ADRIANA: Nice that they were so accommodating.

AICHA: Indeed.

ADRIANA: And I was gonna say, you know, there's something to be said when you said you're the only one who, who wasn't drinking there. I was, I was laughing because I was thinking like there's something to be said for being the only sober person in a party full of like tipsy people. And it is really, I, I, I've been that person and it is funny.

AICHA: You know, for the fact they say that even if I don't drink, I don't need to.

ADRIANA: You've got the energy, you don't need alcohol to give you, to give you party energy. Right?

AICHA: Yeah, that's the spirit. And as they said he, right now we are having a party. We forgot about the work. We enjoy yourself. There is a music, there is companies like chatting casually so no need for drinks.

ADRIANA: Yeah, yeah, I, I feel you, I feel you. I, I, I will choose bubble tea over alcohol any day. So that's great. Well, we're coming up on time. But this has been such a lovely conversation. Every time I talk to you, I'm more and more inspired by you. I. I see you doing some wonderful, wonderful things in your career. You're just getting started. Now, before we part ways, I was wondering if you could give some parting words of wisdom to our viewers and listeners.

AICHA: There's always a lesson to learn. It's either we win or we learn from our experience. So whatever you have situation, if it was bad, just endure it, accept it and start to look for solutions. And this is for especially for you, the women in tech. Please, please, please start to shine out, start to be presented in communities and events. We need you. We need you a lot because as we are kind of minority, people start to think that there is few women that work intech when you are really having huge impact. So please, this is we can say for women and men, if you have experience, share it. The small details, share it. If you don't like to show off the camera, you can write articles, you can post like on LinkedIn. We are right now talking about Bluesky, our new platforms. Yeah. So choose the platform that you're feeling comfortable with. Start to share your the information that you have because even if you find it like something really simple, but it could help another developer. So please build the community to be like from developers to developers and don't be shy to seek help because we're not only giving information, but we need information too. So all I can say is that pay attention to your mental health, look for more communities in your domain and enjoy your life. That's it.

ADRIANA: I love it. Oh, what a perfect way to end this podcast. Thank you so much, Aisha, for geeking out with me today. Y'all, don't forget to subscribe and be sure to check the show notes for additional resources and to connect with us and our guests on social media. Until next time...

AICHA: Peace out and geek out.

ADRIANA: Geeking Out is hosted and produced by me, Adriana Villela. I also compose and perform the theme music on my trusty clarinet. Geeking Out is also produced by my daughter, Hannah Maxwell, who incidentally designed all of the cool graphics. Be sure to follow us on all. The socials by going to bento.me/geekingout.